| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| BlueDragon |
Posted - 28/04/2012 : 08:16:56
So, I think I should say sorry again for dissapearing. I've been quite bad with migrains and it had left me pretty shattered (it runs in the family). But I've got tablets now and they seem to be working for now at least *touch wood*.
I have a problem that I hope peoples on here might be able to help me with. I'm not a part of a fishy group anywhere and I kinda know some of you here. So I hope none of you mind?
I've been seting up a sub-tropical aquarium. I cycled the tank using a biological filter and by putting a tiny bit of food in the tank to sit there. I left it in there for a week and until the water had cleared somewhat. Then I got my first fishies the other week, four Guppies and one lone little Platy girl who was all on her own in the tank. The first little problem came when I realized that one of my four 'male' Guppies was female... and pregnant. Not a real nightmare really. I know that if I just leave her to give birth in the tank then the fry will get eaten. So I'm not worried about being over run really... well, not for now.
So fast forward to last week when I brought home three more females (so that little Gem wasn't all on her own with three randy boys) and two more Platyies to keep my lone girl company.
All seemed well. But there was one little Platy who seemed very shy. He had two rips out of his tail when I bought him so I assumed that maybe he'd been bullied before now and that's why he was keeping out of the way. Now I feel bad for thinking that.
On thurday evening I noticed a tiny little 'cotton-wool' like thing on his tail, around where the nip was. I knew this must be a fugal infection so I looked it up. And I actually found out that it's most likely to be Columnaris. Nasty.
So Yesterday I went up to the petshop to try and get hold of something for him having researched some good things that might work. I came home with the only two things they had in. Aquarium salts and Methylene Blue (they had green as well but I'd read that blue was best for this). So come Friday afternoon the tank was died blue by the MB.
I'm treating the whole tank with all the fish in there including my little poorly Platy boy (in a seperate breeder net for now so I can kep an eye on him easier and so he's out of the way of the other fish) 'cause I read that this Columnaris carries in the water. There's been no change in him yet, but a bit later today I'll dab some of this MB directly onto the efected bit of his tail and see what that does.
He's a very poorly boy and hasn't eaten in two days now.
My questions are: Am I doing things right? Is there anything else I can be doing? Can I add the salt while treating the tank with MB? And what really could have caused this?
I know it can come about through stress. The rips out of his tail are not jaggid. It's definetly not fin rot. Have I done something wrong to make him poorly or is it likely that this was going to happen anyway?
All my other fish are fine. Zooming about, curious in everything. Their usual cheaky selves. There's been no sign of any ichyness from any of them, no rubbing up against things. All seems well. So I'm really hoping I've caught this in time.
And I really hope I can help my poor little Platy boy.
Thank you muchly everybody : ) |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| BlueDragon |
Posted - 13/05/2012 : 13:24:37
Just to let peoples know, I've just joined Tropical Fish Forums : )
I realize that a Reptile forum is not the best place to ask about Fish, So I'm really greatful that you all didn't mind, and thank you for helping me get back on track : )
Gem is looking pretty round now... Maybe soon I could post photos of some Guppy Fry ; ) |
| BlueDragon |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 08:08:47
Thanks for the advice and help both : )
I'll have a look into under gravel filters. See if it would be worth considering getting one.
I'm glad that the water test hasn't shown up anything too bad. I'm doing daily water changes and will test the water every three/four days to see if there's a differece. The second test I did yesterday afternoon didn't show any difference at all, not even in the amonia level, which worries me a bit, but I'll see how things turn out in a couple of days.
I have care sheets that I printed out from various places that tell you all about what the fish like in terms of PH, hardness 'n' all that, but they don't mention GH or KH or whatever so wasn't sure what that meant. I'll have a look see through the file and see if I can work it out.
They do say that the fish I have, and the ones I'm planning on getting in the future, aren't fussy about PH or anything else. Does that mean I don't have to worry about it or is it good to have things a certain way?
I'm glad that the Safe Water stuff I got is right. I'm putting it in the water every day after the water change like it says to on the bottle, so maybe it might help speed things along a little bit. I don't mind doing the water changes every day till then though, it's not really that much trouble.
JB2012, I knew someone who kept and bred Angelfish. He kept them in a huge tank with other fish in there at first. But he noticed that his other fish were starting to get rather short tails. He couldn't work out who it was (thinking it must just be one naughty fish) 'cause he'd never seen any of them do anything. So one night he stayed up till the early hours and low and behond it was the Angelfish! They only started this tail-trimming at night and never in the day! So he had to put them in a tank of their own in the end.
He had some really stunning fish... but they were little toerags really X )
I'll keep you both updated : ) |
| JB2012 |
Posted - 10/05/2012 : 22:56:21
Hi Blue
An Ammonia reading is to be expected at the moment, and should be fairly easy to control with regular water changes. I know this will be a pain, and is also likely to slow down the the growth of the good bacteria, but raised ammonia levels will cause you untold heartache.
The ammonia is the first by-product of the fish waste and any uneaten food breaking down. When the good bacteria starts to develop, it will break the ammonia down into Nitrites. It's when this process starts, that you are at risk of the Nitrite spike I mentioned before. (in my case it was around 6 weeks) once the second strain of bacteria begins to form, the Nitrite is broken down into Nitrates. High Nitrate levels are still harmful, but they are less prone to sudden spikes, and should be taken care of with a good maintenance routine.
The kh & gh test are the carbon and general hardness of the water, which affects the waters ability to hold oxygen amongst other things. These won't be 0, I'll try to double check tomorrow to see how they fair with the fish you have. (I don't think there's anything to worry about there though)
The safe water looks to be the perfect product, and will help to stabilise your levels whilst the bacteria forms.
Cleaning the gravel is important as it helps to remove all of the harmful waste that can accumulate, but don't panic, just use it when you get it 
For the moment I would concentrate on monitoring the ammonia and nitrite levels, probably every couple of days just before a water change.
If its any consolation, mine have decided to give me a headache now, the angels have decided its a good time to fight it out over territory... I had to create a makeshift prison cell out of a breeding net to calm the naughtiest one down... The things we do!!! 
All the best
Jon
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| JanieW |
Posted - 10/05/2012 : 10:43:01
Blue, it sounds like you have everything under control now, and what works for you is the right answer :)
It was a long time ago that I had my fish, and like everything, since then technology advances. |
| JanieW |
Posted - 10/05/2012 : 09:54:06
They can if you fit with a powerhead, most aquariums use them as they are maintance free with excellent filtration.
I used to keep one fully stocked community tank of 4', and the rest rare catfish and all with under gravel |
| BlueDragon |
Posted - 10/05/2012 : 09:42:12
So I managed to get a master testing kit that was kindly kept aside for me and I got something called Safe Water. Also made by King British. It has "millions of specialy selected bacteria". Basically it has four types plus Bacillus (sp?). So I thought that has to be good right? I know it'll still take a while to build up to a proper level but I can keep doing daily water changes till then if I have to.
I did also get a filter cartridge, but it was the wrong one. So I had to go back up yesterday to get the right one. Luckly the 'fish person' was there and he showed me which one I should get.
...Silly me.
So I now have a brand new filter cartridge installed, I put some of this Safe Water stuff in on Tuesday too.
I tested the water with this testing kit this morning after everthing had had tme to settle down and start working. These were the results:
Amonia: 0.5
PH: <6.6 (the arrow thing has a line under it like this _)
KHmg/I: 50 (not sure what the line is so I made it an 'I')
GHmg/I: 125
Nitrate (NO3.)mg/I: 0
Nitrate (NO2.)mg/I: 0
I have no idea what that all means, but I get that it should all be at zero, right? The amonia test said it's at stressfull levels, but only just.
So I've done a water change again this morning and I'll test it again later on to see if there's a difference. I put some more of the Safe Water in after the change 'cause it said on the bottle that you should do and I thought that it was a good idea.
I figured it was going to be a bit off since I've only had the filter cartridge running for less than a day. So I'm hoping it'll get better as time goes on and it gets a chance to work properly. The water still smells nice though.
So are those results OK considering or is it something shocking?
In answer to your questions JB2012 I have about two inches of gravel in the bottom. It's just the natural stuff you get, not the plastic coated stuff. And I've been waiting for a gravel syphon for over a month now and I was told last week that one had been ordered and when it came it was a water syphon not a gravel one. The lass who did the order obviously didn't get what one was despite me explaining it to her and despite me even pointing their own one out that they use for their fish! So I'm quite miffed really. But never mind. I ordered one off Amazon and it should come either today or tomorrow. I am freiting over weather or not the gravel might be making things worse with it not being as clean as it should be. It's not fithly, but it's... dusty?
JanieW, I've read that under gravel filters aren't any good if you have lots of fish? Is that just the case with larger fish? I didn't get one 'cause I'd read they can't keep up with a full tank.
...Don't tell me I've got that wrong too? : /
I still haven't had time to upload any of the most recent photos, I only have slightly older ones. Not much mind you, a week or two, The only real difference is that a plant died so I replaced it with a more 'furry' one instead, and a funny grassy looking thing too. The fish love the 'furry' plants. They must feel nice to swim past : ) I'll post some of the slightly better photos up on a different thread... |
| JB2012 |
Posted - 10/05/2012 : 00:28:38
Bio media is typically ceramic tubes, which are added to the filter to increase the surface area for the good bacteria to grow on. Not all filters have it, and If you have a good layer of gravel in the bottom there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to maintain enough bacteria. (do you use a gravel vac?)
If you do manage to get some gravel from an established tank, you don't need to spread it around, you can keep it in an old pair of tights. As long as there is water flow around it, it will help to speed up the bacteria growth. If you just use the add in filter starters, it can take up to 6 weeks to start to mature, during which time you will have to closely monitor the water quality, and perform regular water changes if and when the levels rise.
Hope everything is going well
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| JanieW |
Posted - 08/05/2012 : 09:52:34
For the future, its worth considering Under Gravel filtration, its great and keeps the bacteria levels stable and you never have to do anything with filters :)
That's all I ever used for my fish, witha powerhead but then I had packed stocks of tropicls :)
Glad its all settling now :) |
| BlueDragon |
Posted - 08/05/2012 : 09:14:24
Thanks for the link JB2012. I think this time round I'd still feel happier if I replaced the cartridge. That way I know for sure I'm not putting anything back into the water. But for future changes it might be a good idea : )
Sunny is still doing fine. So are the others too. I've just did a big water change (twelve jugs) and they seem to aprecieate it. They're all enjoying some steamed lettuce.
What's bio media? I could ask for some gravel off someone if I can't find the starter for the filter. But I'll have a look around and see.
I haven't got time to upload photos thismorning, I gotta get up to the shops, but I've taken some more very blurry shots for you to squint at : ) I'll keep trying to get better ones though. I got a really good one of Panda yesterday.
Thanks again to everyone who has helped me with this. Hopefully this is the end of all-things-bad for now : ) |
| JB2012 |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 13:02:42
Hey Blue, great news that Sunny seems happy again!!
Just to clear a quick point up, you need to ask for some used gravel or bio media, not water.
The bacteria grows on all of the surfaces in your tank, and a lot of filters use a bio media to substantially increase the surface area available (mine uses the biomax here http://www.hagen.com/uk/aquatic/addinfo/fluvalmedia.cfm) I don't think your filter has any bio media, so you'll be relying on it growing on your gravel. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's anything bad with what you have, just trying to explain what was meant (I'm terrible at explaining things  )
Whilst searching for info, also found this which may save you some pennies 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzyiIII28V4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Looking forward to seeing some pics! 
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| BlueDragon |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 09:54:23
I feel good today : )
'Cause my Sunny Boy is back in the main tank!
Swimming around like nowt has happened.
He had seemed much better, his breathing had calmed down and he was swimming normaly. He was still sitting on the bottom of the net, but I figured that it was probably stress from being in there. So I thought the only way I can really see if he's better, to see him acting normaly, is to put him back home. I was nervous of doing it 'cause I knew it was a risky thing to do, but now I'm not so nervous.
He looks so happy again now : ) Back flirting with all the girls ; )
Today is the last day of the treatment, so after today I'll be doing daily water changes again, with a big one to start with. I agree that I probably don't have any good bacteria in the tank right now, and that worries me, so I'm hoping to get the new cartridge tomorrow. I'll see if I can get some of this starter for it as well.
Thanks for offering to give me some if your water JB2012. Yeah, the woman that runs the petshop and at least two of her staff have fish of thier own at home so I could ask for some water from home. I never even thought of that.
How do I test the water without the testing kit? Don't I need that first before I can test anything?
My filter is a Superfish one. fifty to two hundred litres. It just has one filter sponge thingy in it that I can see, was green when it was new, if that makes a difference. I have the filter turned up half way between lowest and highest. The whole tank fills with tiny tiny little bubbles, so I think that must mean there's plenty of oxygen in there. The fish aren't hovering near the top any more, only to sleep at night. They all go to sleep in one back corner (where there's least movement in the water), the Guppies being near the top and the Platies near the bottom in the plants.
My tank is 24 ins by 12 ins and 15 ins high. Apparently that makes it a fifteen gallon when it hasn't got all the gravel 'n' stuff in it. I have two Platies and six Guppies. Two male and four female. The Platies are female too. I know the tank isn't hugh but I don't think that's too many fish for it, is it?
I'll take some (hopefully half decent) photos of how the tank is now, and some of the fish if I can catch them on camera! Hopefully I'll get some good photos and you can all see who's been causeing all this trouble : )
And fingers crossed that this will be the end of said trouble for a long while now...
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| JB2012 |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 11:45:21
Hey Blue
From everything you've said, especially with the lack of bio filter media and using methylene blue, I can't see how you would have any good bacteria at the moment.
I may be off the mark (it certainly wouldn't be the first time ) but this would be the first thing I would try to treat.
You would be welcome to some of my media, but I've just added new fish and wouldn't risk it for a couple of weeks.. I'd speak to your friend at the pet shop, even if you don't trust their tanks (personally I don't trust the LFS's) but maybe they have a tank at home?
I would definitely do daily water changes, the bacteria sticks to surfaces, so you won't 'flush' it all away. I would change maybe 10-20% at the moment, until you can test the water quality, and then see how your levels are. Constant changes may stress the fish a little, but at least you can minimise the risk of ammonia or nitrite poisoning.
The aquarium safe guard is purely for removing contaminants from the tap water, and you will need to add some sort of filter start. I used the interpet start up kit, which has the tap water treatment, and the filter start. It also has the nitrite and ph test tablets you need for initial cycling, and some really good day by day instructions. (I can scan the instructions in on tues and post them here if like?)
What filter are you using? Most filters (that I've seen) have separate compartments for the different medias. Typically foam filter for large debris, carbon and bio media. Depending on what filter you have, you may be able to take the carbon section out, and put the foam and bio media in).
(carbon can also remove the odours from your tank, so if you are using one be careful using smell as a water quality marker)
Thermometer wise, I think most are suitable.
I don't think you're "clueless" about what you're doing at all, I think you've just been unlucky by picking up a poorly fish, the treatment of which is having a knock-on effect with the rest of the tank. It sounds like the rest of your setup is good.
I'm sure you'll soon be over this 'bump in the road' and wondering what all of the stress was about!!
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| JanieW |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 11:43:11
To add to my previous post..what size is your aquarium and how many fish heve you?
I think a pic might help, so yes please, post a piccy :)
If the fish are spending most of their time at the surface, that suggests to me low oxygen which could just be overstocked. |
| JanieW |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 11:12:38
Hmm then the water sounds fine, have you done a water test? If so could you post the results?
I gave up fish when we moved to Scotland, I had started a nice cold water collection but they all died, as the water board up here stopped adding Flouride, swapped for something else so I quit fish. |
| BlueDragon |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 10:47:03
I always messure how much I take out, I count how many jugs I take out (one jug is two litres so I can messure by that) and then fill the same amount up again with the water treater in each jug messured out evenly before I put it in the tank. And I always make sure the water is the same temp too. I'm careful to watch incase there's any change in temp while I'm doing it but there never seems to be.
Would it be any help if I was to show you how the tank is layed out? I mean to show how the filter is running, how the plants are layed out, where the fish can hide and where they can swim around. That sort of thing? I looked up how other people have their tanks set up and tryed to go by the same rules as they seem to. But maybe I've got it wrong somewhere? I can easily imagine I have.
I have some photos of when it was first set up, but I can take some newer ones now when the plants have grown a bit 'n' that.
Sorry JanieW, I must have missed your last post. Yes, the water smells earthy. Almost like damp compost in a way, like damp earth when it's just rained. I can't quite compare it to something else but I think it smells quite nice really. I suppose others might dissagree. It doesn't smell 'fishy' or rotten or stagnant or anything like that. |
| JanieW |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 09:28:29
I think I would phone a local aquarium for some advice on this, local as they will know the water quality.
When you do a water change you must measure the quantity you take out. Then when you add fresh water make sure its warm..add a little boiled water as a sudden drop in temp. kills tropical fish and be sure to add the correct dosage of water treatment before adding to the tank. |
| BlueDragon |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 09:17:50
I don't have the filter on full wack, that's a lie. I did have it up full wack before the fish went in just to start everything off with. I turned it down to half way when the fish did go in. It still creates plenty of movement and bubbles though. And apparently they like it 'cause they love to swim through the bubbles and Sunny, bless him, loves to ride the current when he's well enough. Panda does too : 3
I have it like that though 'cause with them being river fish I thought they'd do best in moving water like that. But there's more than one place in the tank where they can have a rest from it and chill out. I made sure of that. |
| JanieW |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 09:07:14
When I kept several tanks of cat fish, I would do a 25% water change once a week..and test for PH levels. Also smell the tank, it should have an earthy smell if all is well :) If it smells bad, then probably the filtration isn't enough for the quantity of fish.
I used under gravel filters and had no problems.
If you test the tank water, that will offer a clue..it should be neutral. |
| BlueDragon |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 08:56:40
Yeah, I think it's just for treating the water, not the tank. It's called Safe Guard. King British make it. But I thought that was the right thing to have?
The Myxazin bottle does say to take carbon out and I assumed that meant the cartridge? Can't think what else it would mean. But it was out before then anyway 'cause I was using the Methylene Blue. That did definetly say it killed the bacteria in filters, so you have to take the cartridge out.
After this treatment with the Myxazin (the last treatment is Monday) is over then I'll do a big water change then. To get rid of anything in the tank, but also to try and get the water up to scratch again.
The reason I haven't been changing the water at the minuet is only 'cause I didn't want to effect the treatment in any way.
Do you think it might be an idea to do daily water changes anyway till this new cartridge is working properly? I've been reading that people say you should do that. I was told not to 'cause it'll get rid of the bacteria growing and it won't be able to keep up with the changes. It made sense to me at the time, but I'm not sure if it still does now.
I'd like to think I don't over feed. When I net out any left over food, leaves etc there's never really any food left. I've been careful to watch how much they eat and I think I might have got it kinda right.
Plus they have their plants, which are all live, to eat too. So I know fine well they're not starving... they can give me sad faces all they like ; )
I'll try get hold of a digital thermometer. Is it like the ones for reptiles or are they for going in the water? I have a mercury one right now, not one of those strip things.
When I open the lid I can feel how warm it is, it's like walking into a warm bathroom. So I can't imagine that they're too cold. If I put my hand in the water it never feels cold, and with me having problems with feeling cold more than others I figured that must be a good thing?
All the care sheets I've printed out say that my temp is fine. Have I not understood them properly?
The filter I have has one of those tube thingies that shoot the water back out. It's a fifty to two hundred litre filter and I have it on full wack. So the water is airated that way. The tiny bubbles reach almost to the bottom and just over half the tank so there's always air flowing through. And some water movement too.
I have it pointing to just off centre, meaning that there's a back corner where the water current isn't strong. That's there they like to sleep at night. And there's plenty of plants to hide in and they must do something to oxegenate the tank as well?
I don't know many people anyway, and I don't know anyone who has fish. I could easy ask for some from the petshop but I don't think that's a good idea. There could be something in their water. How likely is that?
It's not that I beleive a word I'm told in a petshop. I have a good friend who runs and owns the petshop I go into, but she's not exactlly 'Worlds Most Clued Up'. But I thought that some of what I was told about my fish and tank must be true 'cause the guy who was telling me all this used to work in the other petshop as one of 'The Fish People' there. The other petshop is a proper fish one so I assumed he must know what he's on about, even if it's not all true. He keeps plenty of fish of his own too, and from what I know he never really has problems.
I'm worryed that these poor fish are going to end up the same way as Tig did. Look what I did to him, and he died because I made him ill. I researched for weeks, must have been about three months I think, making sure that I knew what I was doing. Building up my confidence to make sure I knew how to care for him, and I still went wrong.
Now I'm worryied that my weeks of reasearch into fish keeping is all useless 'cause obviously I still don't have a clue what I'm doing. And my fish are the ones getting the dirty end of the deal for it.
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| JB2012 |
Posted - 05/05/2012 : 12:57:11
If the water treatment you mentioned is like the one I use (interpet fresh start), this is purely for treating what's in the tap water, not what's in the tank. The 'nasties' in the tank come from unbeaten food and fish waste. These produce ammonia, which is deadly in high levels.
Once the good bacteria starts to work it breaks this Ammonia down into nitrites.
As the filter matures it produces a second type of bacteria, which breaks this down further into nitrates.
Nitrate levels take longer to become a threat, and are usually kept in check With regular water changes.
From the various bits I've been reading, most treatments don't affect the bio filter media. (carbon filters should be removed though, as they typically remove the medication from the water) if this needs to be be removed, it should tell you on the medication bottle / packet.
If water quality is an issue, you will need to keep doing daily water changes to try to keep the levels in check, until the bacteria has matured
If you know someone with a healthy aquarium, you could always see if they'll let you have some used bio media, or failing that, I hear that a handful of gravel from a healthy tank can kickstart things..
I would also try to make sure you don't over feed, I'm guilty of this, as mine always look 'starving'
(you could always take a water sample in to your local shop, most will test the water for free)
With regards to temps, I think the 20 would probably relate to degrees Celcius.
I think you may be a little low at the moment, according to the details below.
(sorry, it takes a little while to load)
http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/community_results.php?id=80.html
http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/community_results.php?id=82.html
Online temp conversion
http://www.onlineconversion.com/temperature.htm
I would recommend a digital thermometer as well, they're much more accurate, and can also be used to measure the fresh water as well.
(changes of more than a degree in temp can be very stressful)
As a side thought, how are you oxygenating the water?
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