| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jarvo |
Posted - 28/10/2013 : 11:10:34
Hi all,
I have been looking for a royal(my first) of a certain morph for the last month and I think that I might have found one however a few things don,t seem right so I,m looking for some advice based on your experience and knowledge.
He is over 2 months old but is only putting 80 grams on the scales and the owner tells me that he is a good feeder and has never refused(I have seen a pic of him eating).
In the pic of him eating he has a lot of retained shed that is flaking all over his body, is this common in young royals could it be linked to his size or is it a husbandry issue(I,m now thinking of RI).
I have owned snakes for over 3 years and I think that I have been lucky in that I have never had to deal with any shedding issues so this one makes me a little hesitant.
Thanks,
Jarvo. |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jarvo |
Posted - 01/11/2013 : 14:40:33
Thanks all for the advice,
I have walked away from this one however I did contact the seller to offer some friendly advice that his snake is not going through a normal shedding cycle. |
| hodgie |
Posted - 29/10/2013 : 20:54:06
Its a buyers market now, if in doubt walk away. Nothing wrong with an 80g 2 month old Royal though. Personally i`d pass on this one. |
| Jarvo |
Posted - 28/10/2013 : 15:51:48
Thanks for the info the photo,s made it easier to understand, it is a lot of help and I will certainly keep this in mind when I chose my next snake.
Some very nice snakes you have thier. |
| anatess |
Posted - 28/10/2013 : 15:27:51
Each morph has its own indicators that you can gauge as to the quality of the morph. Of course, the royal has to be of good health. But when gauging the quality of the morph pattern, there are some things to look for.
A pastel, for example, tends to get brownish as it gets older. A quality pastel would retain its yellow blushing throughout adulthood. A poor quality pastel starts to become indistinguishable from a wild type royal when it gets older. There are certain indicators to pick out a quality pastel baby. If the yellow blushing on the sides is orangey, it will turn brownish, whereas daffodil yellow babies tend to retain its bright yellow color even as the spine turns brownish.
A quality bumblebee (pastel x spider) can be picked out by its yellow color and the cleanliness of its spider pattern. A bumblebee, has a band on the spine that separates the black from the yellow. A good quality bumblebee would have this orangey/grayish band narrow. This band is what tends to brown out. Also, the spider pattern may be low-white, mid-white, or high white. That is, how much white crawls up the sides of the royal. Some people prefer a high white (white goes up the sides so there's more white than yellow) because the white part of the spider pattern stays white through adulthood. So that, even if the yellow is orangey, it won't brown out as much as low whites. My preference is mid-white because it is the yellow blushing of the bumblebee that I find really stunning.
Okay, this will make better sense with pictures of some bumblebees I have hatched.
First, I'll show you the quality of the parents:
If you look at that pastel (right side), you can see the spine browned out. But, the quality of the yellow on those sides is so bright that you can still quite see clearly how it is very different from the wild type. I don't have a picture of this pastel as a baby but when she was younger, that spine was yellow although it is a darker shade (more orangey) than the yellow sides.
The spider (left side) is a mid-white spider although you can't really see the sides from the picture. What makes this quality is the cleanliness of its reduced pattern. A more quality specimen would have the spider lines drop down some more instead of only a few lines dropping down the sides. A low quality one would have a lot of thick black splotches. But the brown color of this spider is top-notch. It's a very even color without yellowish splotches on the spine.
Here's the spider as a baby:
These two produced these 2 bumblebees:
Bumblebee #1:
You can see the yellow is bright daffodil not orangey, the black spider pattern is clean with thick black splotches to the very minimum. And the grayish band on the spine is very narrow to be almost non-existent. This bumblebee would grow up to be quite smashing. I had no breeding plans so I had this baby adopted to a breeder as I thought this girl would be the perfect quality breeder. Unfortunately, something happened at the breeder's and she passed away right after turning a year old.
Here's the same bumblebee at 2 months old:
Bumblebee #2:
This is the sibling. As you can see, this bumblebee is a lower quality than the first one. It has black splotches all over and the grayish band is thick. He is a low-white one as well. But, even though this baby is not as high quality as his sister, he is still a quality snake because of the brightness of its yellow and the reduced spider pattern.
Here he is at 2 years old:
The spine remained gray and did not brown out because of the quality of the yellow. The yellow is still as bright as when he was a baby.
Here is a shot of his white belly and bright yellow sides:
Still quite smashing. So yeah, it would be even better if you can see the parents of the royal so you have an idea how it will look as an adult.
Now, this is just the bumblebee. Every morph has its own set of criteria! Hope this helps. |
| Jarvo |
Posted - 28/10/2013 : 14:26:21
quote:
Originally posted by anatess
Just my opinion out of that one photo. If you plan to get into a breeding program with this royal later on, I would pass on this one. It's not a good bumblebee specimen. If it's just absolutely a pet and not to be put in a breeding program, then I would see how bad the problem is before I commit to purchase the snake. The bad shed is really bad. It's not normal at all. Bad sheds are not too difficult to correct, but the bad shed does give a red flag that there might be something else. 80 grams for a 2-month old is on the smallish side. Most royals are born between 60-70 grams, under 50 grams is on the smallish side. If you can find out how much this royal weighed at birth, you can judge better how much he's grown. If he was born on the 60-70 grams range, then it's either the owner was not honest about his eating or he has a problem absorbing nutrients. Or it could be the owner is feeding once every 2 weeks...
Anyway, I'd try to get more info if you're interested in this royal.
A healthy royal is not triangular with the spine sticking out. That's underweight. But, at the same time, a healthy royal has its scales touching each other... if there's a sliver of space between the scales the royal is too fat.
Hope this helps.
thanks for your help the more info I can gather the better equiped I am
Hi I have been researching royals including breeding which could be an option for me in the future.
You have got me thinking now on what to look for if I was going to buy royals to breed, I am curious as to what to look for when purchasing a new snake with a view to breeding.
Cheers,
Jarvo |
| anatess |
Posted - 28/10/2013 : 14:12:43
Just my opinion out of that one photo. If you plan to get into a breeding program with this royal later on, I would pass on this one. It's not a good bumblebee specimen. If it's just absolutely a pet and not to be put in a breeding program, then I would see how bad the problem is before I commit to purchase the snake. The bad shed is really bad. It's not normal at all. Bad sheds are not too difficult to correct, but the bad shed does give a red flag that there might be something else. 80 grams for a 2-month old is on the smallish side. Most royals are born between 60-70 grams, under 50 grams is on the smallish side. If you can find out how much this royal weighed at birth, you can judge better how much he's grown. If he was born on the 60-70 grams range, then it's either the owner was not honest about his eating or he has a problem absorbing nutrients. Or it could be the owner is feeding once every 2 weeks...
Anyway, I'd try to get more info if you're interested in this royal.
A healthy royal is not triangular with the spine sticking out. That's underweight. But, at the same time, a healthy royal has its scales touching each other... if there's a sliver of space between the scales the royal is too fat.
Hope this helps. |
| Jarvo |
Posted - 28/10/2013 : 13:20:43
quote:
Originally posted by Kelfezond
quote:
Originally posted by Jarvo
Thanks for the response,
I agree it is very difficult to tell from the photo just how bad the shed is.
I would be picking this one up as it is local to me, I am now getting tempted to have a look and may be make an offer, what would you suggest that I look out for?
Naturally first I'd check that this shed isn't too bad - first check the eye caps are gone (You can tell if they are still there as sometimes they'll appear to be dented or will have parts peeling from the edges) if it's a truly bad kept snake with multiple bad sheds it could potentially have multiple layers of stuck shed skin - I doubt that's the case but something to look out for.
I'd give it a handle and make sure it's moving okay and doesn't have any kinks in it's body (Looks fine from the picture!) when you're handling it listen to it as well if it's clicking or wheezing it could be a sign of an RI (although with bad sheds they often wheeze so hard to tell :/ )
Check that it has a nice rounded shape to it's body and that it's belly doesn't seem to dent inwards or it's spine doesn't protrude too much that'll show that it's had a healhy dies and isn't underweight - that can be a bit tricky to check though as they have a tendancy to suck their bellies in when you flip them over.
Those are the main things I check for when I look over a new snake :)
I do feel a bit more confident on what to look for, cheers, so a healthy royal should be a rounded shape and not like a loaf of bread shape like my Boa and corn.
Would I be right in assuming that I should be able to feel a royals spine and not see it? |
| Kelfezond |
Posted - 28/10/2013 : 13:04:20
quote:
Originally posted by Jarvo
Thanks for the response,
I agree it is very difficult to tell from the photo just how bad the shed is.
I would be picking this one up as it is local to me, I am now getting tempted to have a look and may be make an offer, what would you suggest that I look out for?
Naturally first I'd check that this shed isn't too bad - first check the eye caps are gone (You can tell if they are still there as sometimes they'll appear to be dented or will have parts peeling from the edges) if it's a truly bad kept snake with multiple bad sheds it could potentially have multiple layers of stuck shed skin - I doubt that's the case but something to look out for.
I'd give it a handle and make sure it's moving okay and doesn't have any kinks in it's body (Looks fine from the picture!) when you're handling it listen to it as well if it's clicking or wheezing it could be a sign of an RI (although with bad sheds they often wheeze so hard to tell :/ )
Check that it has a nice rounded shape to it's body and that it's belly doesn't seem to dent inwards or it's spine doesn't protrude too much that'll show that it's had a healhy dies and isn't underweight - that can be a bit tricky to check though as they have a tendancy to suck their bellies in when you flip them over.
Those are the main things I check for when I look over a new snake :) |
| Jarvo |
Posted - 28/10/2013 : 12:50:19
Thanks for the response,
I agree it is very difficult to tell from the photo just how bad the shed is.
I would be picking this one up as it is local to me, I am now getting tempted to have a look and may be make an offer, what would you suggest that I look out for? |
| Kelfezond |
Posted - 28/10/2013 : 12:38:33
quote:
Originally posted by Jarvo
quote:
Originally posted by Kelfezond
Hello Jarvo
80g sounds about right for a 2 month old it's certainly not a bad weight so I wouldn't worry about that.
As for the shedding issue it happens to the best of us every so often I wouldn't judge the breeder too harshly it might have just been a troublesome shed last time and he's likely to shed out fine next time and look beautiful - long as the breeder has cleared any stuck eye caps or tail tips it should be fine however I'd wait for another shed and see if it is still having problems if so it could just be a particularly dry room he's kept in, room humidity sometimes is a little low and can make shedding a pain it's an easy fix though just add some humidity (personally I spray their tank down once a day when they're shedding) so I wouldn't let it put me off buying the royal if he doesn't fix it you can easily enough.
I wouldn't have any reason to think it's an RI I've never experienced RI's giving trouble with shedding, I'd look for wheezing or mucus in the nose or throat before I considered it an RI.
Hope it's been helpful!
Thanks for the reply and clearing up his size.
As I do my homework before buying snakes the sellar has only had him for 1 month and is selling him already, I,m not judging him but I get the impression that he has not done his research. The seller thinks that he is going through the shedding process and that this is normal, he is a bumblebee and he does look pinkish down his flanks.
Here is a photo that the seller has provided.
[URL=http://s867.photobucket.com/user/jarvo7/media/IMAG0091.jpg.html] [/URL]
The only reason that I mentioned RI is I have read on another forum that it is the time of year and if his humidity levels are out would this pose a risk?.
I do a lot of research before buying and need to be certain that I am buying the right animal for me so I,m sorry if any of these questions are a bit daft
For royal pythons we generally don't need to change humidity levels at all unless they struggle with shedding, I wouldn't imagine that would cause an RI even in our colder weather, honestly I'd rule out an RI unless you see either mucus or hear wheezing.
She does look like she's having a bad shed from the photo, if the seller has only had her a month he might not have the best knowledge of how to care for her which could have caused her poor shed but a bad shed isn't a permanent or lengthy thing it only effects it that shed and come the next she should be fine again.
Are you planning on visiting the snake before you buy it or are you having it delivered?
If you're visiting there are certain things I'd check before handing over money but with delivery comes risk no matter what snake you buy. Photos don't ever tell the whole story and you could have a nasty surprise. |
| Jarvo |
Posted - 28/10/2013 : 11:48:42
quote:
Originally posted by Kelfezond
Hello Jarvo
80g sounds about right for a 2 month old it's certainly not a bad weight so I wouldn't worry about that.
As for the shedding issue it happens to the best of us every so often I wouldn't judge the breeder too harshly it might have just been a troublesome shed last time and he's likely to shed out fine next time and look beautiful - long as the breeder has cleared any stuck eye caps or tail tips it should be fine however I'd wait for another shed and see if it is still having problems if so it could just be a particularly dry room he's kept in, room humidity sometimes is a little low and can make shedding a pain it's an easy fix though just add some humidity (personally I spray their tank down once a day when they're shedding) so I wouldn't let it put me off buying the royal if he doesn't fix it you can easily enough.
I wouldn't have any reason to think it's an RI I've never experienced RI's giving trouble with shedding, I'd look for wheezing or mucus in the nose or throat before I considered it an RI.
Hope it's been helpful!
Thanks for the reply and clearing up his size.
As I do my homework before buying snakes the sellar has only had him for 1 month and is selling him already, I,m not judging him but I get the impression that he has not done his research. The seller thinks that he is going through the shedding process and that this is normal, he is a bumblebee and he does look pinkish down his flanks.
Here is a photo that the seller has provided.
[URL=http://s867.photobucket.com/user/jarvo7/media/IMAG0091.jpg.html][/URL]
The only reason that I mentioned RI is I have read on another forum that it is the time of year and if his humidity levels are out would this pose a risk?.
I do a lot of research before buying and need to be certain that I am buying the right animal for me so I,m sorry if any of these questions are a bit daft
|
| jonoandapril |
Posted - 28/10/2013 : 11:25:11
^^much better answer^^ |
| Kelfezond |
Posted - 28/10/2013 : 11:19:12
Hello Jarvo
80g sounds about right for a 2 month old it's certainly not a bad weight so I wouldn't worry about that.
As for the shedding issue it happens to the best of us every so often I wouldn't judge the breeder too harshly it might have just been a troublesome shed last time and he's likely to shed out fine next time and look beautiful - long as the breeder has cleared any stuck eye caps or tail tips it should be fine however I'd wait for another shed and see if it is still having problems if so it could just be a particularly dry room he's kept in, room humidity sometimes is a little low and can make shedding a pain it's an easy fix though just add some humidity (personally I spray their tank down once a day when they're shedding) so I wouldn't let it put me off buying the royal if he doesn't fix it you can easily enough.
I wouldn't have any reason to think it's an RI I've never experienced RI's giving trouble with shedding, I'd look for wheezing or mucus in the nose or throat before I considered it an RI.
Hope it's been helpful! |
| jonoandapril |
Posted - 28/10/2013 : 11:18:21
the weight would depend on how heavy the hatchie was when it came out the egg. im not really to knowledgable about the weights at that age. retained shed all over the body would be a bad sign in my eyes pointing to bad keeping (although we all get a bad one once in a while) or a stressed out royal. personally I wouldn't go for it and would keep looking unless your confident you can fix any issues once your the owner.
and of course, welcome to the forum! |
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