| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Se7enS1ns |
Posted - 15/03/2012 : 15:59:25
Afternoon all,
So after a long drive and a late night, I got my new addition home safe and sound last night and the viv all set up.
Now he came with a 3foot viv which has a cerramic bulb (with cage) fitted about 1/3rd of the way along the roof panel, which is wired into a Habistat pulse-proportional thermostat, which is set to 32 degrees C.
Where should I place the probe for this? At the moment I have it running down the back wall and placed inside his log hide, which is placed all the way over to the far side of the viv, meaning the opening is pretty much directly under the bulb.
Is this correct?? |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Se7enS1ns |
Posted - 18/03/2012 : 14:32:08
Exactly BATS - The viv also came with a full UV lighting rig, so what, £50-60 worth of gear totally unneeded!?
Since I stated the mat in her viv, Monty is spending a lot more time in her hot hide. After spending a full two takes taking temps, I found it was just getting way too hot in there, so she was spending probably 80-90% of her time at the cold end, or somewhere inbetween. This normally wouldn't be a problem with say an IR or ceramic setup, but as heat mats fail to heat up ambient temp suffiently, the cold end is only around 22 degrees C. Way too cold, I'm surprised the poor little sod hasn't developed a sniffly nose or worse.
Kinda annoyed at the petshop for selling inadequate setups - they should not supply them without thermostats, in my opinion. |
| n/a |
Posted - 18/03/2012 : 13:39:37
Ha, join the club, Sevens - that was how I bought my first viv, starter kit: unstatted heatmat, unstatted bulb ...luckily I found a forum before any damage was done and got many surprises ...uh? Thermostat? What's that?
Off topic, sorry, but I wish shops wouldn't sell these 'kits' - I mean, when you're a complete novice you think the shop knows best ... |
| anatess |
Posted - 18/03/2012 : 13:39:14
quote:
Originally posted by Se7enS1ns
Hi Anatess - Yeah it's inside the viv. Basically to cut a long story short, three months ago I didn't know a damn thing about snakes, and bought Monty from a local petshop as a "starter package" which included everything you need (and I use the word need subjectively) - 3foot wooden with with a heatmat.
Since then, I've come to learn that heat mats can in extreme cases cause burns - Monty however is still only small (400grams) and doesn't weigh enough to shift all the substrate out of the way and sit directly on the mat.
Regardless, the intention has always been to ditch the heat mat once she gets a little bigger - I've now brought this forward and will be getting rid of the heatmat next weekend and fitting a statted ceramic - not because I'm worried about her getting burned, but because in my opinion, they are ineffective for providing an ambient heat gradient.
Oi! I got you now! Took me a while... but hey, I'm Filipino, I have an excuse! LOL!
When using under-belly heat, the ambient heat is very much affected by the room temperature. So, to get good ambient heat, the room needs to be close to where you want ambient temps to be then the heat that rises from the heat mat (okay, I keep on saying heat mat - I actually don't use heat mat, I use Flexwatt which is a heat TAPE) only has to account for a little bit more as the heat rises.
The room my royals are in is set to 78F (uhm, my entire house is set to 78F). I get ambient of 82F inside my royal's viv with a 92F hot side.
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| Se7enS1ns |
Posted - 18/03/2012 : 10:36:58
Hi Anatess - Yeah it's inside the viv. Basically to cut a long story short, three months ago I didn't know a damn thing about snakes, and bought Monty from a local petshop as a "starter package" which included everything you need (and I use the word need subjectively) - 3foot wooden with with a heatmat.
Since then, I've come to learn that heat mats can in extreme cases cause burns - Monty however is still only small (400grams) and doesn't weigh enough to shift all the substrate out of the way and sit directly on the mat.
Regardless, the intention has always been to ditch the heat mat once she gets a little bigger - I've now brought this forward and will be getting rid of the heatmat next weekend and fitting a statted ceramic - not because I'm worried about her getting burned, but because in my opinion, they are ineffective for providing an ambient heat gradient. |
| anatess |
Posted - 18/03/2012 : 06:27:01
quote:
Originally posted by Se7enS1ns
Yep, thems the ones! Except mine doesn't seem to be have glue, it just sits there under the substrate. I've grown to hate it over the last 24 hours. I've done an awful lot of reading up, and there's an argument that under-belly heat is better for a snakes digestive function, however the general consensus is that a heater that controls ambient temp (ceramic / IR) is more like what a snakes natural environment - especially Royals which live in shadey areas and are mostly nocturnal! So, the heat mat is getting binned next weekend in favour of a stat controlled ceramic.
Ah I wouldn't bother learning Celsius, it'll be universally ditched in favour of the much more precise Fahrenheit soon enough no doubt, and if there's one thing the Germans know, it's precision! 
Wait a minute... did you say you put the heat mat under the substrate INSIDE the viv? That's not a good idea mate... the royal can sit on that heat mat trapping airflow which could cause thermal burn... |
| anatess |
Posted - 18/03/2012 : 06:16:37
FLEXWATT!
Okay, you know those black square heat mats? Running inside those rubbery looking things are... you guessed it... heat cables. |
| Se7enS1ns |
Posted - 17/03/2012 : 23:01:32
I might be picking your brains later in the year then :) |
| Lotabob |
Posted - 17/03/2012 : 22:53:21
Cable is the future lol.
Its great how you can run one cable through foil lined grooves and do a whole rack on one stat. |
| Se7enS1ns |
Posted - 17/03/2012 : 21:28:38
I'm hoping for little baby Fires early next year, so will be designing a RUB Rack system - I might use heat mats for that, but I'm hearing good things about heat cable! |
| Lotabob |
Posted - 17/03/2012 : 21:23:00
I wouldn't use a mat to heat anything other than my Tarantulas, like you say they are so inconsistent across their surface and I'm always terrified that the snake in contact with the heat source will burn them, I use ceramics now and I'll never look back, its been difficult keeping the ambient temp down a bit in the corn vivarium but other than that I love ceramic heating. |
| Se7enS1ns |
Posted - 17/03/2012 : 19:50:41
quote:
Originally posted by anatess
Oooh... heat mats like the black square things with some glue on one side? Yeah, those are notoriously inconsistent. They were originally designed to heat up potted plants.
I use Flexwatt... I think they call it something else there in the UK. Maybe Flexil or something.
One of these days I'm going to get used to Celsius again. I used to do Celsius when I lived in the Philippines, but now, I can't seem to remember how 32C feels like...
Yep, thems the ones! Except mine doesn't seem to be have glue, it just sits there under the substrate. I've grown to hate it over the last 24 hours. I've done an awful lot of reading up, and there's an argument that under-belly heat is better for a snakes digestive function, however the general consensus is that a heater that controls ambient temp (ceramic / IR) is more like what a snakes natural environment - especially Royals which live in shadey areas and are mostly nocturnal! So, the heat mat is getting binned next weekend in favour of a stat controlled ceramic.
Ah I wouldn't bother learning Celsius, it'll be universally ditched in favour of the much more precise Fahrenheit soon enough no doubt, and if there's one thing the Germans know, it's precision! |
| anatess |
Posted - 17/03/2012 : 18:12:46
Oooh... heat mats like the black square things with some glue on one side? Yeah, those are notoriously inconsistent. They were originally designed to heat up potted plants.
I use Flexwatt... I think they call it something else there in the UK. Maybe Flexil or something.
One of these days I'm going to get used to Celsius again. I used to do Celsius when I lived in the Philippines, but now, I can't seem to remember how 32C feels like... |
| Se7enS1ns |
Posted - 17/03/2012 : 09:49:43
Not sure, just went to go take it out to check and burnt my fingers! Doh! (I haven't woken up yet, it seems!) - I'm going to guess 100w. I've left it on all night just plugged straight into the wall, and to my surprise it actually seems to be keeping temp really well - I have 32degrees at the hot hide entrance, and 26 degrees at the cold side. Am going to keep checking this through the day. Exactly like you said though Bob, I'd rather have a bit of reserve power on tap for a sudden plummet in night time temps, so am definitely going to get a 150w bulb.
On a separate note: I've had the PP stat attached to Montys heat mat (other viv) since yesterday and have been monitoring temps every hour or so since. I've come to the conclusion that heat mats are rubbish!
(a)The mat temp goes beyond 45degress in some places, but barely 40 in others - there's no consistency in temparature across the mat so the placement of the stat probe is luck of the draw really.
(b)The temperature differs between directly on the mat, and an inch of substrate - the heat just doesn't make it through the substrate too well, so to have 32degrees on top of the chips, I needed 35+ at the mat.
(c)Heat mats do virtually nothing for ambient temp: With a reading of 36 at the mat, and 32 on top of the substrate, the thermometer placed 1 inch above the substrate gace a reading of 22degrees hot side, and 20 at the cold side!!
Monty is still only small at the mo (400grams) so I think it is perfectly ample for now as it is more than capable of warming her up from the underside without posing risk of burns - plus I have a basking lamp on during daylight hours which heats the ambient temp up to 32 hot / 24 cold. I will however be ditching the mat on payday in favour of a ceramic bulb. I think Mats have their use in RUB setups and stacks etc, but I'm not happy with the results in a viv, and Monty seems to agree |
| Lotabob |
Posted - 17/03/2012 : 00:10:07
What wattage is the bulb? I need a 100 Watt for my 30oC Boa and 150 Watt for Duke and his 32oC, the 100 Watt could get there but I like to have a few extra degrees waiting in the wings just in case they are required. |
| Se7enS1ns |
Posted - 16/03/2012 : 23:16:22
Right, I've given up. I've decided that the ceramic bulb isn't heating the vivarium up beyond 32degrees C at the floor, so the stat was never switching off (or pulsing).
I've tested that the stat is working by moving it over to my other vivarium setup and attaching the probe to the heat mat - sure enough the stat is pulsing away! I've left the stat attached to this vivarium (Monty's) and just plugged the other (Ifrits) straight into the wall. I'll continue to monitor temps and buy a higher wattage bulb tomorrow. |
| Se7enS1ns |
Posted - 16/03/2012 : 19:46:29
Still having "fun" with this - I've put a couple of thermometers right under the bulb, which are reading 32degrees C. I've set the stat to 32 degrees also - but the heat light doesn't go out on the stat!
I turned the dial down slowly, and it didn't actually turn off until the dial was practically at it's lowest. I swear these things are designed purely to test me!
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| Se7enS1ns |
Posted - 16/03/2012 : 09:50:11
Hmmm... Well thanks for that Anatess, that was really helpful. I'm just wondering now how I'm going to set up up.
Currently my stat probe is in the entrance to the hot hide, pretty much directly under the bulb. I have the stat set at 32 degrees C, but my thermometer read 29 degrees hot / 25 degrees cold. I havent noticed the stat "heat" light goes off or start flickering yet though.
I think I might put the probe in the bulb cage as you said, and turn the stat right up, and when the ambient temp at the hot end gets to 32degrees, turn the stat down until the "heat" light goes of (or starts flickering). This would work, right? |
| anatess |
Posted - 16/03/2012 : 02:40:18
The expert opinion on stat probes and heat mats is to put the probe directly on the mat between the mat and the viv. Basically, the probe is sandwiched between the underside of the viv and the top of the mat. This is because, the heat coming from the heat mat is the thing you need to control and not how hot is one centimeter section of viv that the probe happens to be stuck on that might vary depending on whether a snake is sitting on it or if substrate got piled high on it, or if the snake pees on it, etc. etc. The probe is sandwiched because it prevents air drafts to cool the probe and giving it a wrong reading.
In a rack system, the probe is stuck to the heat mat smack dab in the middle of the rack to control all the heat mats.
For a viv heated by a heat lamp, the probe can be put inside the lamp cage where the snake can't get to it.
In either set-up, the temp setting of the probe doesn't matter. What matters is the temp inside the viv. So, you can have a stat probe set at 97F to achieve a 92F hotspot reading on the temp gun inside the viv. Make sense?
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| Kelfezond |
Posted - 15/03/2012 : 19:24:52
Aye I have my probe stuck in a spare rub on the rack |
| Se7enS1ns |
Posted - 15/03/2012 : 17:06:32
Bit off topic - but how do Stat setups work for Rack systems? Do you just have the stat prob in one tray/box and allow the stat to control the heat for the rest? |
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