| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Toothfairy |
Posted - 22/06/2009 : 13:31:05
Hi all
I am wondering if anybody could help me, i really need some advice or ideas. My royal python Shirley Valentine passed away yesterday she was only 17 months old, she was in great condition and looked really healthy. She shed about a week ago, she normally had difficulty shedding so i helped her by bathing her in warm water and she managed to get it off. She hadn't eaten for 3 weeks but her tail was thick and she had plenty of meat on her. I went out yesterday morning and when i got back she was on her back, she shared a viv with my older royal Costus who is coming up to 3yrs old. Why would a healthy happy snake just go like that? i dont understand it, she was my baby and i am gutted about this.
So if you feel you could advise in anyway please please plase don't hesitate to contact
Many thanks
Tara |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Paulusworm |
Posted - 28/06/2009 : 10:06:43
quote:
Originally posted by Toothfairy
plase send if you could
Cheers
My msn addy is on the bar above this post. Add me on messenger and I'll send them to you that way. Seems to work best. I'm on the hunt for more research papers about it before my uni subscription runs out . |
| Toothfairy |
Posted - 26/06/2009 : 17:42:35
plase send if you could
Cheers |
| Paulusworm |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 17:06:15
quote:
Originally posted by Toothfairy
http://www.anapsid.org/ibd.html
they are websites that branch off this too. So it is different for both?
The thing is that the situation is a bit like that of AIDS when it was first identified. The mechanism of its development isn't fully understood. Things like, why it takes so long to develop in boids and sometimes remain assymptomatic but have such a rapid onset in pythons are still open to debate. Nothing definitive has been scientifically proven yet. Lots of theories but nothing definate.
The offer still stands if you want a copy of the pdf files that I have . |
| Toothfairy |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 16:53:02
http://www.anapsid.org/ibd.html
they are websites that branch off this too. So it is different for both? |
| Paulusworm |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 16:47:05
quote:
Originally posted by Toothfairy
no my point is that i did read up on ibd, and it says that you can have asymtimatical snakes, but in royals the onset time is rapid compared with royals, as someone pointed out in an earlier post they put royals in with boas to see if they had the disease. If they died within a month or so they took it that they had it. The point i was trying to make was that Shirley had lived with the other two snakes fror such a long period of time that seath would of came a lot sooner than 15months. They say that boas dont last that long, so therefore a royal would last even less time.
When ibd was put out the first thing i did was go and read up on it (i'm like that). None of the snakes, being the two boas and Shirley show any symtoms, now surely the chances of three asymtimatical snakes are slim. i read that it is not an overnight disease, on the friday before the sunday she died, she was being herself, yes she was a bit lathargic in the weeks before hand, but she was shedding with difficulty (which she had from day 1, i must add) and she must of been uncomfortable.
Ok. Please don't take this as me slating you and please don't take it personally. I'm not into all that.
What book or published academic research paper did you get your information about ibd from? The angle that I am looking at this whole ibd thing from is the development mechanism in Boas not Royals .
EDIT: typo. |
| Toothfairy |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 16:39:50
no my point is that i did read up on ibd, and it says that you can have asymtimatical snakes, but in royals the onset time is rapid compared with royals, as someone pointed out in an earlier post they put royals in with boas to see if they had the disease. If they died within a month or so they took it that they had it. The point i was trying to make was that Shirley had lived with the other two snakes fror such a long period of time that seath would of came a lot sooner than 15months. They say that boas dont last that long, so therefore a royal would last even less time.
When ibd was put out the first thing i did was go and read up on it (i'm like that). None of the snakes, being the two boas and Shirley show any symtoms, now surely the chances of three asymtimatical snakes are slim. i read that it is not an overnight disease, on the friday before the sunday she died, she was being herself, yes she was a bit lathargic in the weeks before hand, but she was shedding with difficulty (which she had from day 1, i must add) and she must of been uncomfortable. |
| Paulusworm |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 16:11:03
quote:
Originally posted by Toothfairy
paulusworm, you read that Shirley lived with two boas for 13mths, she had three months quarantine, before going in with them. Hiss had had two years quaratine as she lived alone and seviper had 4mths quaratine before being put in with any other snake. If it was ibd, they say the onset time from catching it to a. showing syptoms or b. a fatality is very much more rapidly wouldn't this of happen within that 12month period?
That's the thing about ibd in boas that doesn't seem fully understood. Does it lay dormant or does it just take ages to develop to contagious levels? Nobody seems to know yet. If it is the second of the two options then it could explain a lot of sudden deaths in boid/python mixed collections. It seems to work in a similar mode to hiv in humans. Aids doesn't kill the person it's the chest infection, etc. Not saying that ibd and hiv are the same it's just that a snake that has died because of ibd will manifest symptoms similar to other ailments and because that's what the vet can see during the pm they will class that as cause of death. Unless there are multiple symptoms present and the vet is aware of ibd then they probably won't think to take biopsies for testing.
Sorry if that was about as clear as mud but my 2yr old is next to me going Daddy, daddy, daddy, etc . |
| wolfspirit |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 15:58:15
quote:
Originally posted by Toothfairy
paulusworm, you read that Shirley lived with two boas for 13mths, she had three months quarantine, before going in with them. Hiss had had two years quaratine as she lived alone and seviper had 4mths quaratine before being put in with any other snake. If it was ibd, they say the onset time from catching it to a. showing syptoms or b. a fatality is very much more rapidly wouldn't this of happen within that 12month period?
not necessarily so, it can lay dormant in a boa for months or even years before you know they are a carrier or have it.. |
| wolfspirit |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 15:56:40
quote:
Originally posted by punumbear
think it was mc`s post earlier about should royals really be classed as a beginners snake then.. damn after reading all tht plus everything else fussy feeders,RI`s,bad shedding, now sudden death..... damn think i may rethink my next purchase.Want to enjoy me animals not constantly worry over em... lastly very unfortunate about ur royals untimely demise..my sympathys are with u.
corns are more prone to sudden death than royals...some of it is down to enlarged hearts... |
| Toothfairy |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 15:31:22
paulusworm, you read that Shirley lived with two boas for 13mths, she had three months quarantine, before going in with them. Hiss had had two years quaratine as she lived alone and seviper had 4mths quaratine before being put in with any other snake. If it was ibd, they say the onset time from catching it to a. showing syptoms or b. a fatality is very much more rapidly wouldn't this of happen within that 12month period? |
| punumbear |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 15:03:17
think it was mc`s post earlier about should royals really be classed as a beginners snake then.. damn after reading all tht plus everything else fussy feeders,RI`s,bad shedding, now sudden death..... damn think i may rethink my next purchase.Want to enjoy me animals not constantly worry over em... lastly very unfortunate about ur royals untimely demise..my sympathys are with u. |
| wolfspirit |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 13:29:59
quote:
Originally posted by Paulusworm
Having seen the Range Rover I'm on the lookout for a certain WW2 tank now
that would go well with Sherman wouldnt it....lol.. |
| Paulusworm |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 09:25:37
Having seen the Range Rover I'm on the lookout for a certain WW2 tank now |
| Paulusworm |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 09:23:15
That was one seriously confusing read. Jeez, thought I was gonna have to put the blue beret on and play peacekeeper. **Puts on best Dad telling off voice** Play nice people or I'll bang your heads together, or worse still Kaz will Kinger the lot of you.  
Toothfairy: Sorry to hear about Shirley Valentine. Did you get a pm done in the end? Failure of the digestive tract is one of the symptoms of IBD in pythons. With boids it can be carried with no symptoms ever being shown and the boa never falling ill. However, with pythons it is a very quick descent into illness and death. I think you posted earlier that you keeping a close watch on your other royal. If you want me to email it to you I have a pdf file that goes into IBD amongst other things. Let me know and I will happily email it to you. Nobody is criticising you in any way, shape or form so please don't take their questions personally. That's the problem with communicating over the internet, nobody can see facial expressions or body language and innocent posts get taken completely the wrong way. Don't worry mate we are only trying to help. |
| MissCat |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 08:12:25
No i believe the "woof woof" was a reference to the fact that toothfairy had seen the original post despite it having been editeded.
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| wolfspirit |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 06:29:23
quote:
Originally posted by MissCat
i found it humourous lol ;) we are all nice people really, especially when it's not midnight and some of us may have been on the vino...
but peoples... be nice... remember when i joined the forum..... you could have been evil to me... but you weren't... if you HAD been evil i suspect Ra would be dead.....
i didnt, if Ali had not of edited her post, i'd think it was to be taken as it was written, of course now she has it makes no sense...
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| MissCat |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 00:30:10
quote:
Originally posted by Toothfairy
thats cool would be unusual, a pyramid lol if i put some pics in the photo album do i just make a new topic?
yea :D |
| Toothfairy |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 00:28:18
thats cool would be unusual, a pyramid lol if i put some pics in the photo album do i just make a new topic?
|
| MissCat |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 00:21:21
quote:
Originally posted by Toothfairy
This is shirley on sunday. (Costus in the background)
that's an ace picture, they look like a double headed snake cos u cant really see where one ends and the other starts
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| MissCat |
Posted - 25/06/2009 : 00:20:19
lol found a nice car ;) but not sure my son will appreciate me trashing it hahahaha would make a good one though for the baby corn... or the leo geckos... lol. i will have a proper look through their toys tomorrow... OMG i have just had an AMAZING thought! My son has a wooden pyramid... that would make a GREAT hide for Ra....(geddit, Ra- Egyptian God.... ... dammit i doubt i will ever be able to convince him to let me steal it....... :s |
