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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
 Posted - 23/01/2013 : 14:59:01
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Ahoy ladies and gents.
Going to share some thoughts that have been buzzing 'round my head for a few days about a kind of link I have noticed with a few people (fortunately none on this wonderful forum, but certainly a lot within our hobby) and the RSPCA.
Forgive me if this is a little confusing I'm just going to be typing as I think since I've no idea how to lay out my thoughts - anyway this all started a few weeks ago where I noticed the typical "dark side" behavior (however in the dark side's defense I didn't notice it on there I saw this on a Facebook group) - you know what I mean when we come across a thread or status from somebody who clearly doesn't know what he's doing and his pet is coming off worse for this lack of knowledge - I then notice a lot, most if not all of the people who reply to this chap immediately take superior higher ground. It's here where I find the problem, they specifically target the person in question and ask a series of seemingly helpful questions - this starts off so we can pinpoint the problems "What temperatures are you at?" and "Are you using a vivarium or a faun' or a rub etc.". However these almost instantly begin to turn to finding weakness and waiting for the moment when the person admits to not having done enough research or not using the right equipment or cannot afford the right equipment - then like a pack they go for the kill "You shouldn't impulse buy, if you really care for the animal you should do research!!" "You shouldn't have a pet if you can't afford the upkeep!" etc. - All correct but I'm personally wondering if we can try to get away from this mentality.
I see the link between this behavior and the RSPCA's recent(ish) behavior and I'll explain why - far too many people immediately target somebody as a bad owner, label them as cruel to animals and then deem them the enemy. This I find wrong - yes the person might/probably is a *insert insult* but we're meant to be animal lovers and experienced keepers. If we keep going down this path we're going to end up like the RSPCA spending 80% of our time and energy slamming bad owners instead of trying to help them - you might not like what they've done or how they've done it but if you genuinly care about the animal that's having a hard time you need to put in the effort to be nice and try to educate these people - they rarely listen to anything that somebody whose been insulting or humiliating (or even just lecturing) them says to them.
I'm not talking about severe cases here of course, if an animals not been fed for half a year and is swimming in it's own mess then that's a different kettle of fish - however the next time we encounter somebody who doesn't use a thermostat, somebody who'se just bought a leopard gecko without knowing the care, somebody using a heat mat with a big snake or somebody who hasn't fitted a bulb guard let's try to be friendly - 90% of the time they're just ignorant of their mistake but trying to do good by their animal.
And as always - remember! There is never 1 right way of doing things, never tell somebody they're doing something wrong just explain your own preference and hope they see it as an idea worth embracing.
That's the end of that rant! lol |
\v/ Click me for Kelfezond Reptiles Facebook Page! \v/
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Baobab
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1393 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2013 : 15:31:46
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Well put young man. Thankfully the haters and preachers don't often appear on the RPF.
It is refreshing to have somewhere that people can ask questions and admit to mistakes without being made to feel foolish or embarrassed.
Long live the friendly forum. |
Royal 8.0 - Piebald (Dipstick), Calico (Flake), Pinstripe (Copper), Kingpin het Hypo (Gabriel), Soulsucker (Morgoth), Clown (Ziggy), Phantom (Spook), Enchi( Stenchi) .................Royal 0.12 - Pastel (Elanor), Spider (Willow), Normal het pied (Loki),, Pastel Sterling Orange Hypo (Misty), Normal (WC parents) (Cinders), Pewter (Tinuviel), Yellowbelly (Kaiko), Mojave (Milly), Champagne (Bubbles), Fire (Flame), Karma paradox (Smudge), Amoretti (Rita).Boa's 2.2.1- Eowyn (common), Snuggles (BCC), Bonnie (BCC), Bear (BCL) & Baileys (Kahl strain)..........Western Hognose 0.0.2 - Timmy & Henry.
Coastal*diamond carpet python 0.0.1- Pippin.........Brazilian Rainbow Boa 0.0.1 - Badger..........Granite Burmese 0.1 - Sally
Reticulated python 2.2 - Saru (purple albino), Cheesy (Sunfire albino white), Titan (Platinum Titanium) & Gala (Sunfiretiger het albino)......Rat snake 1.0 Remmy.
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jimmer7
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
661 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2013 : 16:01:39
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| Hi I know what you mean, join another reptile forum just to have a look and was surprise by the amount of bitterness, towards other keeps new and old. |
Winston Pinstripe
Pepsi Lesser Yb
Ronnie Sulfur Mojave
Sponge bob Firefly
Dr marshmallow brazilan black terranchala
Skellator costa Rican zebra T
Plus4 hissing cockroaches.
Reggie CA dwarf boa het blood
Willow Hognose |
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Leucistic
Yearling
United Kingdom
453 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2013 : 16:03:09
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Well said Kelf.
I for one am glad RPF isnt like that, its so nice and friendly here. Glad I found you guys first 
I was on another forum the other day (which I never post on) and wow the amount of mud been slung on there was crazy. Experienced keepers battling with each other over nothing major, new keepers being jumped on also. Their mods werent even bothering with it all. The internet seems to bring the worst out of some people.
Long live our happy little community here. |
1.0.0 Mojave Royal Python - Loki
0.1.0 Lesser Fire Royal Python - Summer
0.1.0 100% het Albino Royal Python - Nancy
1.0.0 Butter Spider Royal Python - Otis
1.0.0 Albino Royal Python - Hermies
1.0.0 California King Snake - Oreo (Mr Grumpy)
1.0.0 Western Hognose - Tyrion
0.1.0 Amazon Tree Boa - Rose
0.1.0 Horned frog - India
0.0.2 Gargoyle Gecko - Willow & Amber
0.0.1 Leachianus Henkeli- Boo
0.1.0 Staffy x Bulldog - Piggy
Lots of Fish and Shrimp |
Edited by - Leucistic on 23/01/2013 16:22:46 |
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herriotfan
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
812 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2013 : 17:22:41
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Couldn't agree more.
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Husband....Very Understanding!!! (Phil)
Son & Daughter (Kevin & Carol)
Granddaughter (Eva)
3.4.0 Cornsnakes Amel (Sidney) Caramel Stripe (Sultan) Amber (Cleo) Carolina (Phoebe) Anery Motley Stripe (Penny) Snow (Lily) Caramel (Holmes)
1.2.0 Royal Pythons (Peeps, Pandora & Pepsi)
1.0.0 Hognose (Hudson)
2.1.0 Dogs (Dillon, Alfie, Ellie)
0.1.0 Senegal Parrot (Peanut)
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons (Bonnie & Clyde)
1.0.0 Crested Gecko (Echo)
0.2.1 Hermanns Tortoises (Ebbie, Rosie & Twiglet)
0.1.0 Guinea Pig (Dolly-Pipsqueak)
0.1.9 Tarantulas (Poppy, Gypsy, Bumble, Insey Winsey, Sonic, Cookie, Fudge, Sox, Raven & Titch)
??? Foster animals
Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex
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Fezza
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1063 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2013 : 17:42:25
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Wow, talk about stirring up a hornets nest of a topic. I dare you to post this over on the dark side ;)
I think that your last paragraph sums the situation up perfectly. Sadly it seems in the nature of certain reptile keepers to believe their way is the only way. It also seems that some of the established "old guard" and more experienced keepers, are incapable to a certain degree to allow themselves to learn anything new or open themselves to new ways of thinking. Sad really when you consider how far the hobby in general has come in the last 10years, let alone the last 30.
I can however understand some of the reactions that certain situation you read about on various forum and social media sites illicit.
Your typical "my *insert species* won't eat" type of post generally will receive to begin with, replys that are intended to be helpful. "Check your temps" etc. now when the answer come back "my setup is fine" and then at some point further along the discussion, it transpires that the setup in question is totally inadequate .i.e no stat, temps all to cock etc. it's hardly surprising that the OP gets the level of grief they do.
In the information age we live in, finding a base level of care for almost any species you care to name is often easier than joining a forum, starting a thread, having an argument then flouncing off after your level of stupidity/laziness has been drawn to attention.
The pack mentality, where all and sundry gather together to pick upon the unfortunate individual is sadly part of human nature, only exacerbated by the anonymity of t'internet
It's something that as a hobby, we really shouldn't be proud of. There are enough detractors in this world without us turning on each other. The more experienced keepers acting as if they've never made mistakes (I know that when I started, I did everything wrong! I'd be happy to admit it) doesn't help. Coupled with big pet store (and some small ones for that matter) dishing out terrible, inaccurate information in the name of making a sale, means there is always going to be an influx of new people to his hobby making a hash of thing and getting flamed for it |
1.0.0 normal royal
1.0.0 mojave royal
1.0.0 pastel enchi royal
0.1.0 cinnamon royal
0.1.0 pewter royal
0.1.0 genetic stripe royal
0.1.0 lesser goblin royal
0.1.0 phantom royal
0.1.0 Columbian rainbow boa
0.0.1 aru x jaya GTP
0.1.0 bredli
1.0.0 trans pecos rat snake
1.0.0 fat black cat
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Edited by - Fezza on 23/01/2013 17:45:47 |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2013 : 17:52:53
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Great example of what I mean on dark side right now. Thread about how angry a woman is after finding a kid trying to rehome an iggy he rescued a few months back - now what exactly is the issue?
Far as I can see he rescued an iggy, that's all that should matter, is it better off in its old bad home? Is it better if this kid is forced to keep something he no longer wants? |
\v/ Click me for Kelfezond Reptiles Facebook Page! \v/
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chrisc
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
3326 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2013 : 17:59:11
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ah the good old flaming in RFUK, that's one of the reason's i only use it for the classified's now.
most of the member's on there just want to argue a have a go at people rather than help and the mod's are just as bad.
i had a go at some of the the idiot's a while back who were having a go at someone who was asking newbie question's about a boa they had just bought, yes you should really research before buying but you can garentee that 99% of the keyboard worrior's did exactly the same thing when they started keeping reptile's.
a lot of mine were impulse buy's to be honest but with the internet you can find out what you need to know in 5 minute's and isnt the whole point of reptile forum's to be somewhere you can ask other keeper's about how they care for whatever species you have bought/planning to buy.
its not difficult to answer similar newbie question's time an time again is it and after all we have all been there an asked the same question at some point.
i get a huge amount of enjoyment from helping/giving people advice on forum's/facebook groups |
1.0.0 burmese python,giblet. 1.0.0 BCI, william. 0.1.0 blue tongue skink, 0.1.0 green iguana, jasmin, 1.0.0 cape house snake, 0.1.0 checkered garter snake
my youtube. http://www.youtube.com/user/pegrocks
incubate 2 campaign
https://www.facebook.com/incubate2 |
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ob_wan
Hatchling
67 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2013 : 19:32:28
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Excellent thread.
As per chrisc above I only use RFUK for the classifieds, the few times I have ventured into the forums it all seems rather negative and even a little aggressive.
Never on this forum have I come across someone I wouldn't be happy introducing to my animals!
I love this forum, check it whenever I have a spare minute, contribute where I can, and learn when I can't.
And isn't that the best way to expand and support our hobby?
Spread the knowledge and the love! |
1.0 CB12 Het Albino - Caesar
0.1 CB12 Vis Albino - Cleo
1.0 CB10 Mojave - Anubis
0.1 CB11 Pinstripe - Isis
0.1 CB11 Lesser - Poggle |
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eyeball
Yearling
United Kingdom
114 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2013 : 21:30:41
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*shuffles in seat then stands up awkwardly* My name is eyeball, and I'm *cough* ... a beginner...
Seriously, I'm so glad I found this forum. I've recieved nothing but help and support from everyone and how many forums can you even have live chat with other members!
One thing that I've learnt in the time that I've spent researching, choosing kit and then choosing Noodle is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. There are different ways of doing things, all of them just as valid as the next and part of the whole journey is finding the one that is right for you and your chosen pet.
I did a whole bunch of research before we took the plunge but I very quickly realised that there was bundles of basic stuff that I didn't know and every time I asked a question it was answered as if it was the first time someone had asked it.
Long live the RPF!! |
0.0.1 Pastel Royal Python - Noodle |
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badwool
Sub Adult
658 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2013 : 23:01:14
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| Gotta admit, I the darkside does have me in stitches most days. |
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jbarlow91
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
897 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2013 : 23:34:13
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| I think this is definatly the best forum. Everyone is friendly and you don't have to worry about asking if you are unsure on something |
0.1.0 snow corn Ruby 1.0.0 ghost corn-Oreo
1.0.0 bearded dragon- kato
0.1.0 bearded dragon- keita
1.0.0 cali king-Taz
0.1.0 royal-Clio
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal- Moose
0.1.0 hognose jinxx |
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boomslang
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2025 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2013 : 00:26:07
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I agree for some of it ;) Like people being sold heatmats without stats from a shop.Then asking for advice and getting shot down,Or like other things like that.
But lets also face it,There's people that do alot of stupid things.This being the internet people will rag on them bad :)
Also lol at the RSPCA :) where it's secondary and not a problem if you know nothing about animals,to apply for a job there :) |
1.0.0 pinstripe Royal Python
1.0.0 Bumblebee Royal Python
1.0.0 Normal corn
1.0.0 Extreme red Hognose
0.1.0 Extreme red tiger Hognose
1.1.0 yemen chameleons
1.0.0 Piebald yemen
1.0.0 Tamatave panther
1.0.0 Quadricornis
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IncurableFlirt
Yearling
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2013 : 03:08:51
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| Nothing makes me more angry than when I see somebody asking for help and advice and finding the great majority of the replies are negative, snippy and downright aggressively mean. That is the whole reason behind having a reptile/snake forum is to help others achieve greatness in caring for their animals. It used to make me so mad that I would jump in and defend the newbies, but then people started jumping on me for coming to their defense. So now, instead of doing that, I will privately message the person and help them as best as I can. I can't count the times I have been thanked gratefully for not being judgmental and for helping out where I could. I will be the first to admit that when I got started, I didn't know very much about reptiles and pretty much jumped in with both feet. However, I did massive amounts of research, joined lots and lots of forums and learned through my experiences (and others' that shared them). It doesn't take more energy to be kind and helpful. In fact, it would probably take less energy than being a jerk and trying to come up with mean and witty replies. Not to mention...you always can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. ;) |
Jenn.
11.8 Ball pythons
1.0 BCI boa
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow boa |
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Tiggy
Hatchling
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2013 : 03:10:41
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| Nothing more heartwarming than a cozy pair of slippers, a cup of hot soup, a browse thru The RP Forum....and a contented python peering out from his/her hide......and the knowledge that many friends are there with experience and advice at the click of a keyboard button. |
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rockroyal
Yearling
United Kingdom
470 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2013 : 07:01:27
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well said kelf !
like many others i no longer use RFUK apart from looking in the for sale section.
my main area is tarantulas and kept these for years but i found the joy of royals about 3 years ago and big mistake asked questions on rfuk within seconds i was being hammered. Round about that time i found this forum and was delited how friendly everyone was.
i would like to end by saying this forum is fantastic friendly and a nice place to be a member of. |
3.1.0 royal python
2.0.0 corn snake
0.1.0 western hognose
0.1.0 bci
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BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2013 : 09:54:33
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Agree with everyone really.
Yeah, I know what you mean about the RSPCA and others like them. Abusing what power they think they have and turning into bullies, going around putting people down and generally just making a situation worse if anything. I'm not a fan of the RSPCA for more than one reason and I'm not a fan of people thinking they're god's gift.
I had a look on RFUK before I found here, but very quickly desided not to join. The hate that seemed to ooz from their was not what I was after nor what I'd ever want.
If people are asking for help then I think it's only fair to assume that they want it genuinly. Yeah, there are people out there that just won't be told no matter how nice your are or how patient. And those are the few people out there that maybe shouldn't have certain pets, or any at all. 'Cause I think you need the capacity to be told. But for the most part people ask for help 'cause they need it and want it. And what good is being nasty going to do?
No-one responds well to negitivity, and if anything it's only effect will be to worsen the pet's care as a result of worsening the owners confidence.
I'm very easily put off asking things if people aren't nice about answering, and I'm sure I'm nowhere near the only one. And to have to sit there and not know what to do, feeling helpless towards your beloved pets, and to be worrying and stressing is awful.
I agree that the info you can get your hands on these days is great, and imense, and that there is no excuse for not doing your reserch before you take on the huge responsablility of owning any pet. But what I've found is that it's very often very general and as much as I read up on things, and as long as I do it for, I still need help sometimes. And that's just the way it is, whoever you are. I'm sure.
Possitivity is (almost) always the right way. No-one will respond well the the nasties, so why bother? I hate people who think they know better than anyone else, and who assume they know everything. One of the things I love most about keeping the Animals that I do, and hope to maybe keep in the future, is the constant learning I'm doing. Always coming across new information, new behaviour or new ideas. It never gets boring.
The day I think I know everything about anything is the day I hope someone will sit me down and tell me good and firm that I'm now an oficial idiot and that clearly I know nothing at all. |
Just me and my zoo. |
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Laws
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1007 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2013 : 14:36:09
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Think that this post sums up exactly what I have been brooding on lately , I use rfuk now for the classifieds and if I need reviews on products I wouldn't attempt to ask for advice on there as it doesn't seem to matter how big or small your question may be , you will get some one who will assume the god like put down .
I have had it on a facebook group actually , it was my first year brumating hognoses , I have looked at caresheets , books and cross checked them all , but I also don't think you can beat actual keepers opinions . And I got met with "you should have done your reserch first ". Which made my blood boil as I only wanted to see how experienced keepers did things and also to double check that I had my facts right too .
I definately don't think it takes two seconds to be nice , because with one comment you can crush all that joy from owning reptiles . My first experience with a corn from a pet shop was awful . I read some caresheets , popped to a reptile store thinking excellent came home with a beautiful corn BUT with a 2.5 foot viv and the wrong equipment . I proudly posted pics of my snake and instantly people commented it was wrong which when you have been to a rep store as a newbie , you don't expect to be mistold info etc . And the other point is its hard to know how to take people's response , abit like a text you can read it numerous ways , it may seem pushy or snappy , but that's the way it comes across it may not have actually meant that way . Thanks to good forums like this I found out I couldnt have got the kit for this baby corn a a) lot cheaper b) more suiteable but heinsight is a wonderful thing !
this forum is brilliant . I may not speak very much , as I often worry about if I have said the right or wrong thing and confidence issues mean I worry if I'm liked or not, I'm fairly new to keeping royals after my first non feeder two years ago . But now have three so am re learning .
Its brilliant to see the response here , no flaming , no attacking .
I double dare you kelf to post this on the dark side ! Could you imagine ? Definately not a place for the sensitive people ! |
www.facebook.com/Thehogbox
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2013 : 14:45:51
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| It's also good to remember people learn in different ways - personally I struggle with care-sheets, I either lack the motivation or attention span to read 8 pages or I doubt the experience of the author - I've learnt so much first hand and it's without doubt my favourite way to learn, not only because I find it easier to talk than to read but also because you strengthen bonds with people, gain trust and make friends - I can probably count on both hands the amount of people that I've really learnt from and how have been willing to give me the time to explain things. In 2-3 years of reptile keeping I've gone from a single royal python from a pet store with the wrong set-up (and like Laws I posted pictures proudly only to be told and I quote "Enjoy your burnt snakes" because I didn't have a guard for my lamp, didnt' even bother explaining just that single remark) to breeding various different species, keeping lizards, inverts and snakes, handling aggressive and taming down snakes, even working with venomous snakes - everything I learnt was from kind people willing to give me some time, to see a newbie on a forum asking what "het" means or how to set up a viv there's no telling that in 2-3 years he/she couldn't be exactly where I am now handing out advice and working with amazing animals and lots of confidence. |
\v/ Click me for Kelfezond Reptiles Facebook Page! \v/
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boomslang
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2025 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2013 : 21:02:45
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quote:
My first experience with a corn from a pet shop was awful
That can be one of the main problems,People being sold the wrong equipment or given the wrong advice at a shop :)
quote:
personally I struggle with care-sheets, I either lack the motivation or attention span to read 8 pages or I doubt the experience of the author
Caresheets online can really vary,leaving you puzzled as to which one is right/wrong. |
1.0.0 pinstripe Royal Python
1.0.0 Bumblebee Royal Python
1.0.0 Normal corn
1.0.0 Extreme red Hognose
0.1.0 Extreme red tiger Hognose
1.1.0 yemen chameleons
1.0.0 Piebald yemen
1.0.0 Tamatave panther
1.0.0 Quadricornis
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BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2013 : 08:22:55
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Same here as well. Reading is hard for me at the best of times, not only the words but trying to make sense of it all. Laying things out in bits is easier (for me anyway). And I also think that sometimes all that info can just seem soo much to have to take in. You can and do forget things, or get them mixed up etc.
I've had people get short tempered with me lots over the years just 'cause I can't understand them straite away.
And I also agree that things can sometimes be interpreted wrongly. It's very hard to read how a person is sounding and impossable to see their body language etc. So that's worth baring in mind too. |
Just me and my zoo. |
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Too quick to judge?
