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jenw6
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
 Posted - 31/01/2013 : 20:25:13
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| Hi all, first time royal owner and new to the forum. Was going to post in the health section but decided to put everything on the one post. We have a 6month old male who I adore already, we have had him about a month but I am very concerned. I did so much research beforehand but I feel we have taken home a poorly snake:( he was a gift for myself from my partner who purchased him from Dobbies. The guy at the store said he ate one fuzzie 3weeks before we got him and he has refused all food since. He is triangle in shape, 101g and 22" long and apparently 6months old. Is this an ok weight/length/age ratio? He was in shed when we got him and it still hasnt all come off, despite us giving him a warm bath the other night (although this did take some skin off). I can't shake the feeling we have purchsed a really unhealthy royal and just been ripped off. Any advice? Oh, set up is a komodo royal starter tank, hot end 32'C, cool end 24'C. He has a damp moss hide, fake plants and wood hides, water dish. Humidity higher than 60% but we figured this was ok due to him shedding. He is in a quiet dark area to settle in and we have not handled much. Have I made any mistakes or am I doing anything wrong so far? We have offered thawed, heated up fuzzies and absolutely no interest whatsoever, he is so thin and "empty" please any advice thank you and sorry for the long post |
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Foremand
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
968 Posts |
Posted - 31/01/2013 : 20:30:39
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He maybe in fasting. And they sometimes are a fussy eater. Just over time make sure he's not loosing too much weight. And keep trying him on food every week or so. My royal is 7/8 months old n sometimes goes with out. They just like to be a challenge. They take a while to settle into new environments too. They only real sign of unhealthy is RI. snotty mouth etc. or if he loses too much weight in short period of time.
Everything else is fine by sounds of it.
Did you wrap him I'm towel to try n rub off more lose skin? They need something to rub against. And humidity during shed seem ok. |
1.0.0 Royal python- Kaa
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0.3.0 Cats- Does not matter they won't come to you
1.0.0 Red Footed Tortoise- Nemo
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0.0.1 Brocky- Bearded dragon |
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Baobab
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1393 Posts |
Posted - 31/01/2013 : 21:30:48
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Just curious, but is it rat or mouse fuzzies that he is on, as they will be more keen to eat mice. Have you tried the braining, slightly overheating head, tuna oil etc methods of offering the mouse.
We had a couple of refusers after purchase. We put them back in there small purchase container, with holes, mouse and water, then placed that in their faun overnight and covered. So far that has always resulted in an eaten mouse by the morning.
If he still has some old skin on you may need to help him with it. As you have done a bath helps to soften it up, but then it is worth having a damp towel to gently let him push through or some very gentle rubbing from head to tail direction with the wet towel against the edge of the old shed. Don't force it though.
Without seeing him 101g for a 6 month old seems a bit under weight, but as you said he may not be 6 months old. Don't panic, they are Hardy, but when you get the chance, if he hadn't started eating in the mean time, take him to a herp specialist to look over, just for advise and reassurance if nothing else.
Can't say I'm impressed with the shop you got him from for letting him go whilst refusing to eat.
Welcome to the forum by the way and all the best with your new Royal. |
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Coastal*diamond carpet python 0.0.1- Pippin.........Brazilian Rainbow Boa 0.0.1 - Badger..........Granite Burmese 0.1 - Sally
Reticulated python 2.2 - Saru (purple albino), Cheesy (Sunfire albino white), Titan (Platinum Titanium) & Gala (Sunfiretiger het albino)......Rat snake 1.0 Remmy.
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jenw6
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 31/01/2013 : 21:58:41
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| Thank you for the replies! After his bath the other night I held him in a towel hoping he would wriggle about and that would help rub some skin off but he just sat still and didn't move, he very rarely moves it's horrible. And he ony seems to be getting worse which is the hardest part. I am going to leave him with a mouse overnight (they are mice fuzzies) and see if it is gone by morning. Haven't tried braining yet, one fuzzie split open and it's insides were coming out but that didn't tempt him to eat one bit. So tempted to handle him but I know he needs left alone to settle, I will give him another bath perhaps tomorrow tho to help with the shed. Hopefully once that is all off he will be more likely to feed? He has pooed once since we took him home so I guess that proves he did eat something at least before we got him. Thank you for the advice! |
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jenw6
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 31/01/2013 : 22:03:48
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| How long should a shed last on average? |
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Fezza
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1063 Posts |
Posted - 31/01/2013 : 22:25:08
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Hi and welcome
From memory itusual takes about 5 days from blue to shed, there or there abouts |
1.0.0 normal royal
1.0.0 mojave royal
1.0.0 pastel enchi royal
0.1.0 cinnamon royal
0.1.0 pewter royal
0.1.0 genetic stripe royal
0.1.0 lesser goblin royal
0.1.0 phantom royal
0.1.0 Columbian rainbow boa
0.0.1 aru x jaya GTP
0.1.0 bredli
1.0.0 trans pecos rat snake
1.0.0 fat black cat
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boomslang
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2025 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2013 : 01:46:24
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Hello and welcome :) How's he being heated?and is his heat source on a stat?also how are you measuring the temps?
I'd try a larger size mice or rat,whichever he's been feeding on.101g sounds rather on the light side,But you can't know for sure he's 6 months old either.Only going by their word hes that old,and was eating with them etc etc.
Is the room busy in the day?How big is this viv you have him in?Pictures of him and the setup might help :) |
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0.1.0 Extreme red tiger Hognose
1.1.0 yemen chameleons
1.0.0 Piebald yemen
1.0.0 Tamatave panther
1.0.0 Quadricornis
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jenw6
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2013 : 19:13:11
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Hmmm I am concerned now because he was shedding when we got him and still not all come off! It seems almost glued to his head and neck and sides. We have a heat mat on the warm side under the glass of the tank, substrate feels warm to the touch under his hide. We have a damp moss hide which is all steamed up so humidity should be working but it isn't apparently and he never goes in the damp hide, not that I've ever seen anyway. The mat is on a stat, we have a thermometer in his tank on the cool side which reads 24'C. We are out during the day so the room he is in is quiet and dark. Don't know how to upload pics sorry, this is the tank we have him in http://www.rocketaquatics.co.uk/komodo-ball-python-starter-pi-2391.html?image=0&osCsid=e15ono6m27qd3o59ugc83llv74 and our setup is not too far off the picture on that link except we have some branches and there is a lot less free space as I know large spaces freak royals out, especially babies. He was exploring it a lot when he first went in but now most of the time he just sits in his hide and doesn't climb or explore, he seems to be deteriorating with every passing day and still refusing to eat. Shop told us he was feeding on fuzzies and only ate one in the 3weeks prior to us taking him home and this was put down to him going into shed. Should we move him to into a rub so there is hardly any space to make him more secure? I knew being a first time owner it would be worrying and I'd make the odd mistake but it really seems a dire situation..
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Fezza
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1063 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2013 : 20:02:05
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Has the snake lost much weight since you've had him?
If you can't get him to eat, would the shop take him back and see if they can get him eating? At 6 months old I would expect a royal to be eating a small mouse or rat fluff every 5 days. If the shop hasn't had him feeding for three weeks prior to you having him I'd be asking why
Royals can go for a while without feeding, weight loss is the biggest indicator to health. If he's not lost 10-15% of his body weight you don't need to worry yet
Have you tried mice and rats?
Not all royals will strike. Try leaving the food item in the viv overnight |
1.0.0 normal royal
1.0.0 mojave royal
1.0.0 pastel enchi royal
0.1.0 cinnamon royal
0.1.0 pewter royal
0.1.0 genetic stripe royal
0.1.0 lesser goblin royal
0.1.0 phantom royal
0.1.0 Columbian rainbow boa
0.0.1 aru x jaya GTP
0.1.0 bredli
1.0.0 trans pecos rat snake
1.0.0 fat black cat
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boomslang
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2025 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2013 : 21:31:39
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Yeah if he only ate one tiny fuzzie 3 weeks before you had him,Then that means they didn't feed him for another 3 weeks.So its been awhile since he's eaten anything.
Is the shed over his eyes and whole face?Id take the damp moss hide out.And just spray the viv to up the humidity,He might use the other hide then.Try different size rats/Mice and heat up whichever you try.
Like Fezza stated,6/7months old and only eating large pinkies/Fuzzies at the shop.something don't seem right there.I wouldn't move him to another rub/viv now.I only asked which viv you had,as one of them is like 2 foot high etc.The one you have is fine :) |
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0.1.0 Extreme red tiger Hognose
1.1.0 yemen chameleons
1.0.0 Piebald yemen
1.0.0 Tamatave panther
1.0.0 Quadricornis
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jenw6
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2013 : 21:41:04
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| Thanks guys for all the advice, we left a fuzzie mouse in overnight but it was still there in the morning, only all brown and gross haha. the skin is over his eyes and head yeah, it's only just peeling from his nose but ever so slightly, it just wont come off. I've bathed and rubbed gently with a towel and this removed some but the rest will not come off and shows no sign of budging. We are going to complain to the shop and see what they suggest whether they will take him back and try get him feeding for us. He has lost a gram or two but not 10% of his bodyweight so that's a small relief in some way i guess. Feel really let down and wish we had gone to a breeder but going to do all we can for the little fella and thanks again for the advice. So attached to him already. Fingers crossed he improves. |
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boomslang
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2025 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2013 : 21:48:45
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So his eye caps are still there?ie there's skin over both eyes?if so then thats most likely why your having problems.Or could be adding to your problems.
And Dobbies is like a garden centre?Was he in a messy kinda shed when you got him?Or just starting to shed when you picked him up? |
1.0.0 pinstripe Royal Python
1.0.0 Bumblebee Royal Python
1.0.0 Normal corn
1.0.0 Extreme red Hognose
0.1.0 Extreme red tiger Hognose
1.1.0 yemen chameleons
1.0.0 Piebald yemen
1.0.0 Tamatave panther
1.0.0 Quadricornis
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Edited by - boomslang on 01/02/2013 21:57:03 |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2013 : 07:50:27
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My first guess would be a stressed out Royal (easily done). Are you handling him much? - Obviously you gave him a warm bath (how warm exactly?) I would also advise making that viv more Royal friendly (I'm guessing the sides are glass too, in which case, cover them with paper or something), really fill it up with plants/furniture. I know this means you won't see them as much, but will be worth it in the long run.
I would always advise against handling a Royal until they are feeding regularly.
Your Royal does sound slightly under what you'd consider a normal weight for a 6 month old, but considering its being fed on mouse fuzzies, that's not a surprise, a baby Royal can (and in my opinion should) take much larger than that. I start mine on Rats from the word go.
You mentioned that you measure the temperature on the cold side, what is the temperature on the hot side? - If the substrate feels warm to touch from a heat mat through glass it sounds too hot if anything. Remember that our blood temp is ~38C, so if it feels warm to you, it's probably hotter than that!
Check out the health section for suggestions to help with a bad shed, I know some that suggest scrunched up damp newspaper in a pillow case with a rock, although have never tried this myself.
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2013 : 21:59:51
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Hi JenW6 welcome to the forum. I think Blackecho has hit the nail on the head with the stressed out snake bit. The things I have taken from the post are a triangular shaped Royal is an under weight Royal so you are right to be a little concerned but its nothing that can't be sorted out quickly. If the snake has been in shed its very unlikely to eat during this process, couple that with moving home and I'm not surprised that its skipped a few meals and in the long term this wont be a big deal. It also sounds like its had a bad shed, again it's not a major problem, it's usually easily fixed with half an hour in a damp pillowcase.
One bit I'm curious about is your setup; more specifically how are you regulating the temperatures? Do you have a thermostat attached to the mat? What type of thermometer are you using? What size is the tank and how much open space is inside? What side hot or cold is he spending most of his time? (Question central I know but it's easier to deal with everything in one go than pick over it point by point, it could be one thing or a combination of factors but one thing is certain, you'll get to the bottom of it and have him all fat and happy in no time) |
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Nicola
Hatchling
United Kingdom
90 Posts |
Posted - 21/02/2013 : 22:45:48
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Hi Jen, welcome to the forum.
How's ur little royal doing? Just been reading through and I hope he is feelin better now x |
0.0.1 California Kingsnake. Cecil
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new owner,but concerned
