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bengy_s
Yearling
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
 Posted - 15/10/2009 : 22:54:43
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I just bought a Royal 2 days ago from a reputable pet store specalising in snakes.
He is approx 2/3 years old and about 80cms. In the store I handled the royal and he seemed fine (tongue flicking often, interested but not aggressive, attracted to my hand and arm heat etc).
Anyway after geting him back and set up, I left him alone in his viv (80cm X 40cm X 40cm) until this evening. I know you are supposed to leave them a week or two to settle (I have a corn), however when I put my hand in and stroked him he didn't mind at all so thought safe to hold.
I took him out of the viv and was holding him for around 5 mins and everything ok. Then WHAM, he struck my right bicep and locked on! I was in some pain as he connected with the inside of my arm where there is less flesh but was more concerned about damaging his fangs. I returned him to the viv and he settled down after an hour or so.
I am stumped why this happened and would appreciate any advice. I have noted the following:
1. He has 1 hide on the warm spot, water bowl on the cool spot and beech substrate. I still need to get a hide for the cooler spot and some artificial vine or foliage for him to hide amongst.
2. He seemed to smell my tshirt shortly before he struck.
3. My royal is at my flat along with my girlfriend's hamster (see note 4). The Corn is at parents house. The Hamster used to be at parents house, now it is at flat.
4. His viv is on the floor just inside bedroom. My girlfriend has a hamster in the living room 10 feet away (its a flat so not on different floors obviously). Perhaps he could smell him? The corn did not seem to notice the hamster so much when the hamster stayed at my parents.
5. Earlier in day (at parents) I handled my corn and fed it although I did wash hands thoroughly a few times throughout day. So by the time got back to flat was 6 hours later.
6. He was fed 7 days ago. He does not seem to be approaching his shedding phase.
Again, the question I'm asking is WHY he struck when being handled rather than when I first of all tried to handle him in his viv. This is why i'm writing this as EVERY other person I googled got bitten when trying to get them out the viv NOT during handling, and theirs were young and mine is older so hurts more?!?
Your prompt help is very much appreciated as I want to enjoy the snake as a pet and obviously weary of him now and thats unfair on snake and me.
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 R.I.P Chester |
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matty198111
Yearling
United Kingdom
174 Posts |
Posted - 15/10/2009 : 23:03:08
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im sure someone with more experience will be along soon but may i suggest that you leave him another week with out handling him, just spot clean the viv and change water.
i know it is tempting to handle them but they do need time to settle in.
if i were you i would leave him a week, he needs to know nothing is gonna attack him. and then just get him out for five mins at a time.
another thing to remmeber is not to hesitate just go in let yourself been seen and then gently pick him up from under neath,
hope this helps and any more questions just ask |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 15/10/2009 : 23:09:10
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As above, I'd say give them time to settle, no handling for at least a week.
I would also recommend having the setup ready before buying a snake, perhaps as he only has a hot hide he's hotter than he wants to be. |
 
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matty198111
Yearling
United Kingdom
174 Posts |
Posted - 15/10/2009 : 23:31:52
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for now you could use something as a tempory hide ie old shoe box or you could even make something outta card board until you get a proper one.
but he really does need a cool hide
mat |
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karl
Fully Grown Royal
1069 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 09:33:13
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some snakes don't handle the moving about as well as others. Think about it, he has been taken to a shop from one home, stared at, picked up, moved about etc in the shop, then bought by someone, taken to another home, then that person has picked him up and he has freaked.
Either that or he may be in shed and just freaked as he can't see very well.
Leave him be for a while, they calm down eventually. Get your setup nice and secure for him and he will settle soon enough. |
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bengy_s
Yearling
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 11:21:21
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Thanks Mat, Karl & Blackecho.
I will follow the above advice and try again in week.
I have a concern about the viv temp;
I been using a heat mat on its own which covers about half the viv (viv is 80X40X40cms), but the thermometer only reads a temp of 22-24. This seemed too cold. I have been using a lamp with a 40watt dark GREEN bulb to bring the temp up around the 30 degree mark at the hot end. Is this ok?
Also do you think he can sence the hamster in the next room and will this be a constant problem? |
R.I.P Chester |
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wolfspirit
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
5741 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 12:19:15
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I keep one of my royals and a corn in the same room as my multis and my hamsters and its not a problem..
How are you measuring the temps in your viv? is it viv a digital thermometer? are you using a stat?
also is that bulb guarded? |
"No one can go back and make a brand new start. Anyone can start from
now and make a brand new ending."
-- Source Unknown
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bengy_s
Yearling
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 12:31:20
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Hi Wolfspirit.
The store where got snake just sold me heat mat (no thermostat), but surely without a stat it'll heat as much as it can, which doesn't seem man enough on its own? Or will a stat be able to raise the mat heating temp?
Its not a digital thermometer its a exo terra analogue thermometer. The bulb is not in the viv. Its on ground level 5 inches away from the viv is that ok? |
R.I.P Chester |
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wolfspirit
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
5741 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 12:55:13
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hi Bengy...
that is quite common for stores to sell heat meats without stats, they want the sale and are not interested in the fact that the snake can and will end up with burns on any unstatted item in the viv..
this is a thermal burn caused by an unstatted heatmat..
your heat mat may not seem warm to you, but left without a stat they can and do reach temps of a 115 very very quickly..
the stat will keep the temp stable and prevent your snake from being to hot and getting burnt...
you would also be best to get a digital thermometer for temps as they are far more accurate than dials or analogues...
ebay for them...i got mine for £3.00 and its great...
Have you read the care sheet on here, it is one of the best around and very very informative..
heres the link..
http://www.theroyalpython.co.uk/royal_python_care_sheet.htm
good luck  |
"No one can go back and make a brand new start. Anyone can start from
now and make a brand new ending."
-- Source Unknown
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chris100575
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
743 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 13:11:53
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Hi Bengy
In addition to what Anne said, a heatmat will not warm the air in the viv only what it's touching. If your thermometer is one of the stick-on dial types and is stuck to the viv wall then it's entirely possible that your mat is running full-tilt, getting very hot, and still the thermometer won't pick it up.
At the moment my baby boa is on a heat mat, my thermostat and thermometer probes are sitting on the substrate directly on top of the mat, anywhere else and they wouldn't detect any heat from it. It would be really useful if you could post a pic of your setup in case there's anything we can suggest.
Please note that, unlike some other reptile forums I could mention, if you've got it wrong nobody will have a go at you. |
0.1.0 Royal Python - Princess
0.1.0 BCI - Feather |
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wolfspirit
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
5741 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 13:14:07
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quote:
Originally posted by chris100575
Please note that, unlike some other reptile forums I could mention, if you've got it wrong nobody will have a go at you.
thats why this is such a special forum Chris...someone here will always help you without lynching you first.. |
"No one can go back and make a brand new start. Anyone can start from
now and make a brand new ending."
-- Source Unknown
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bengy_s
Yearling
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 13:16:07
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Wolfspirit,
That has really made me angry they did that! What an eye opening photo. I will order one straight away on ebay. Can I trouble you to give me item number on ebay suitable? Sorry, but I don't know much about them.
Is the bulb ok shining into the tank as I described?
I have just bought a £14 digital thermometer & digital humid reading on ebay. As I said I will order a stat straight away but need to know which one?
I did read care sheet and I have now but a shoe box in there so he has a hide on cool side now until I get another purpose built hide.
I feel, apart from temperature, stat etc. I meet requirements for him.
The only other thing concerning me is I asked the store owner for water bowl big enough for him. He said I only needed one for him to drink out of and the care sheet says otherwise?........ I guess the store is not as good as I was told? Im annoyed as I was dealing with the owner... I dread to imagine wat the lesser qualified staff are advising?
Thanks Ben |
R.I.P Chester |
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bengy_s
Yearling
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 13:18:43
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| Give me a minute Chris will take photo now. |
R.I.P Chester |
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bengy_s
Yearling
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 13:39:11
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| How do i add photos? |
R.I.P Chester |
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chris100575
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
743 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 13:44:00
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Ben, eBay item no 160348736953 is the type of thing you need, I'd recommend either Habistat or Microclimate thermostats as they both have a good reputation. Heatmats are only really suitable for heavy bodied snakes like pythons and boas when they're small, as they get bigger they really need either an infra-red or ceramic heat bulb.
The thermostat I've suggested is the cheapest of the three types available and ideal for a heatmat, however you would need to replace it if you moved to a heat bulb. For one of those you'd need either a dimmer stat, or a pulse-proportional. Pulse stats are cheaper than a dimmer but only work for ceramic bulbs otherwise you'd get an annoying disco effect!
I wouldn't use the green bulb, the mat should provide enough heat but like I said, it probably won't show up on your thermometer if it's on the wall. |
0.1.0 Royal Python - Princess
0.1.0 BCI - Feather |
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chris100575
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
743 Posts |
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bengy_s
Yearling
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 13:55:21
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Ok so he's around 80 cms or 90. Is it worth getting thermostat for heat mat or shall I invest in ceramic bulb?
If so what would I need for that set up? i.e. ceramic bulb, bulb holder and guard as I assume this will need to go inside the viv? |
R.I.P Chester |
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bengy_s
Yearling
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 13:56:23
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| Or because he's male would the mat see me through as he wont get an awful lot bigger? |
R.I.P Chester |
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chris100575
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
743 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 14:11:33
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It's up to you really, he could get to 150cm or so by which time he'd really need a bulb. Buying what you need now would save money in the long run, but would cost more now. I don't have a pic of my setup as I'm at work, but what you'd need is:
- Screw-fitting bulb holder (this needs to be suitable for a ceramic bulb if that's what you're going to use, it'll be ceramic instead of plastic.) Don't bother with a bayonet fitting, they're a pig to find bulbs for.
- Infra-red or ceramic heat bulb.
- Guard.
- Thermostat, go for a dimmer as they're arguably more accurate than pulse, and they work with either infra-red or ceramic bulbs.
Whether you go for ceramic or infra-red is largely down to personal preference, ceramics emit no light. Infra-red emit red light so you can see your snake, but it looks like dusk to them. Either work well. Yes, the bulb would go inside the viv.
This thread tells you all about the different kinds of thermostat available: http://www.theroyalpython.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=213
By the way, I went through this with my first snake too, totally wrong advice on heating from the pet shop!  |
0.1.0 Royal Python - Princess
0.1.0 BCI - Feather |
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bengy_s
Yearling
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 14:15:01
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R.I.P Chester |
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bengy_s
Yearling
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 14:21:05
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| Here shows what looks like at moment. The heat mat is on the left half of the viv. The green light is as you can see outside but heat shines through. Any comments/ improvements welcome. How would I attach a bulb holder and bulb guard to this? Or shall I order stat you showed me (chris) and use the mat for a while and when decide how to fit ceramic bulb? Any useful links to correct stat for ceramic if you think this is best option? |
R.I.P Chester |
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Why did he bite!?
