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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
 Posted - 29/05/2010 : 17:28:29
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It's been a while since I posted here. I've just been so busy with so many other things I just don't have the time for forums anymore.
But, since this is a major event in our house, I thought I'd share.
My husband and kids decided to put our pastel and spider together when I refused to give them money for another "morph". They wanted to try for a bumblebee.
So, finally, the eggs are here, all 5 of them. Today is day 10 of maternal incubation - and they candled okay. Mamma snake ate a rat on day 2 of incubation. So, I'm going to continue offering her food.
I decided on maternal incubation after much research because I trust the snake more than I trust myself. She knows how best to care for these eggs. I have to say, my normally super docile kids pet python has turned into nightmare-mamma-python-of-the-underworld. You open her tub (I moved her to a plastic tub to better control humidity) to change water and she's ready to tag you in a millisecond. Had to be very, very careful.
Set-up: I moved her and her eggs out of the glass viv to a plastic shoebox lined with 2 inches of aspen with a hole cut on the lid for her to get in and out of. Then I put the shoebox in a bigger plastic tub 26 inches X 16 inches with holes drilled on the lid. I put a UTH underneath the tub on one side, put the shoebox over the UTH, put the thermostat on it set so that it makes the shoebox between 86F and 87F temps. I put a big waterbowl right next to the thing to give ~80% humidity. Tub temps outside the shoebox is around 80F.
They all look good right now.
60 days seem SOOOOOOOOOOOO FAR AWAY!
Sorry, I don't have good pictures. Mamma snake doesn't like pictures at the moment - she's into tagging anything that gets close.
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Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
1.0.0 normal western hognose |
Edited by - anatess on 29/05/2010 17:43:13 |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 29/05/2010 : 18:10:27
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| Congrats on the eggs, 80% humidity, sounds too low for the eggs and too high for mother. I suppose that's one of the problems with self-incubation. Keep an eye out for sagging eggs and RI's! |
 
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mischang
Yearling
United Kingdom
482 Posts |
Posted - 29/05/2010 : 18:30:46
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| will be following this thread till the end as i would like to try both methods when i start breeding good luck sounds good but how did u mange to get her off them did u use a towel etc over her headand then scoop or un tangle ?? also i thought breeding was over now ?? or am i havin a moment |
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
Posted - 29/05/2010 : 20:58:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Blackecho
Congrats on the eggs, 80% humidity, sounds too low for the eggs and too high for mother. I suppose that's one of the problems with self-incubation. Keep an eye out for sagging eggs and RI's!
Actually, that's the main advantage of maternal incubation. The mother controls the humidity inside the coils. If it gets too humid within the coils, she loosens the coils (this is when we see the top 2 two eggs in the shoebox which gives me a good feeling to see they are still white and smooth-looking). If it gets too dry, she wraps completely around the eggs so you don't see any of the eggs at all.
I chose to keep the humidity in the tub between 70% and 80% because this is the relative humidity in Ghana around March/April/May which is the egg-laying season there.
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Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
1.0.0 normal western hognose |
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
Posted - 29/05/2010 : 21:09:44
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quote:
Originally posted by mischang
will be following this thread till the end as i would like to try both methods when i start breeding good luck sounds good but how did u mange to get her off them did u use a towel etc over her headand then scoop or un tangle ?? also i thought breeding was over now ?? or am i havin a moment
She was bred to the male spider in December/January. She didn't lay until May. We thought she wasn't gonna do it but, alas, we have eggs!
I had to get her off the eggs so I can move her and the eggs out of the viv (humidity only 50%-60% without misting) to the plastic tub which is more humid. It was quite an experience. We are usually very confident when taking her in/out of her viv as she's very docile. But, when she had eggs, she was ready to strike when we opened the viv. So, yeah, we had to use a hand towel to put over her head then we picked her up by pulling her neck up, then took her tail and unwound her from the eggs. We had to be careful not to tip the eggs over as I've read this is not a good thing to happen.
This is how the eggs looked on day 2 straight from the viv:
Notice some dimpling on the eggs. We believe this is due to the lower humidity in the viv - the mamma snake can only raise the humidity so much inside her coils.
The eggs have plumped back up now that they're in the tub (from what we can see when she uncoils a bit and we see the top 2 eggs).
We expect the eggs to hatch in July yet. It's gonna be a loooong wait.
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Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
1.0.0 normal western hognose |
Edited by - anatess on 29/05/2010 21:10:41 |
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
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hodgie
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1197 Posts |
Posted - 29/05/2010 : 21:36:57
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| Good luck. I couldn`t wait for my spider to get old enough and ended up buying a bumblebee. Will be watching with interest. |
Royals owned "lots"
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 02:05:30
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Update:
We went ahead and fed mamma snake on schedule. We went back and forth on it - my husband and I - and finally decided to go ahead and feed her. It gave me a chance to candle the eggs, check for poop, mold, etc. And it gave my husband a chance to check mamma snake's health. Everything looks good although mamma is down to 1400grams.
We offered a slightly smaller ASF rat than she's used to. She went for the rat in 2 seconds flat. We put her back in the tub after she ate and she went straight to the eggs and coiled again.
Everything is fine except I noticed that one of the eggs is squooshed like she had her coil on top of it the whole time. It has good fat veins. I tried to press it a bit to see if it re-shapes but it looks like it's stuck just like that.
Admittedly, I'm really not as worried about the eggs than I am about mamma snake but it would be really cool if all 5 of these eggs hatch out fine.
THIRTY-EIGHT MORE DAYS. Sooooooo looooonnngggg.... |
Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
1.0.0 normal western hognose |
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reptiledanny
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2106 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2010 : 16:03:33
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| hows everything going with the eggs and mama? |
1.2 royal pythons 0.1 hog island boa 1.0 corn snake
sig made by stapey |
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lee2308
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2597 Posts |
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paulo
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
31 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2010 : 09:27:47
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| Any updates, must be getting very close now, hope all is still well. |
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2010 : 15:55:07
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Sorry, I've been too lazy on the updates!
Okay, here is the entire story. It wasn't a complete success but a success nonetheless.
Okay, so throughout the incubation period, we kept the tub temps at 86F. I was thinking it is better to have it low than high, because with maternal incubation, the mother can adjust the temps inside the coils. Well, I was wrong on this. Mama royal cannot raise the temps by shivering. Mama will go to a hot spot and bask then come back to the eggs if she needs it warmer in there. Well, the whole tub was 86, so there was no place for her to bask. After consulting with some other people who are doing maternal incubation, they say they keep the temps at 88-89F in the tub.
Mama snake never skipped a meal - we fed her every 10 days. She would eat, then come back and coil.
Everything went perfectly until day 60. Mama snake, for some unknown reason that I know of, decided to leave the eggs. It was a little stressful for us because we were expecting the eggs to pip around 55 days. But, because of the low temps nobody pipped at 60 days.
So, we fired up the emergency incubator and we cut the eggs and transferred them to the incubator.
1 of the eggs didn't have any movement. We were thinking that this could be the reason that mama left the clutch. We can't be sure, of course.
After a day or so the one egg started to stink, so we took it out. It was definitely lifeless in there.
Everybody started to crawl out of the egg a few days later, unfortunately, one of the babies got wrapped in the umbilicus. We tried to untangle him but it was too late. We didn't know what we were doing (first clutch ever). He didn't make it either.
So, out of 5 eggs we have 3 surviving babies. Only 1 baby absorbed all the yolk, he came out at 69grams. The other 2 babies detached from the yolk before the yolk was all absorbed, they were only 46 and 47 grams. They have all shed but none of them has eaten yet.
All in all, I call the maternal incubation a success because it went all the way through day 60. It was mainly my error that caused our problems in the end. |
Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
1.0.0 normal western hognose |
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2010 : 16:02:20
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Sorry, forgot the pics.
I don't have post-shed pics yet. I wanted to wait until they eat before I stress them out with a photo shoot.
Here are pre-shed pics of the babies:
Here's my do-it-myself emergency incubator:
Incubator cost only $10 not counting the heat mat inside (I used the heat mat from the maternal incubation tub). |
Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
1.0.0 normal western hognose |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2010 : 16:47:19
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| 2 Bees, nice. |
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2010 : 17:21:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Blackecho
2 Bees, nice.
The other 2 that died was another bee and another normal.
Really wierd how I didn't get a spider or a pastel. But yeah, I don't have a normal nor a bee so now I got all kinds! Yeay! I have an extra bee that I might go and have adopted. Well, that is, if I don't get too attached to them. One of the bees (the big one) BIT ME! I mean - gee whiz, I have never been bitten by a snake in my life until this little bugger. They are quite nippy! |
Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
1.0.0 normal western hognose |
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mischang
Yearling
United Kingdom
482 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2010 : 02:15:34
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| thats funny has no one told you its always the small one u need to watch lol x x |
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hodgie
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1197 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2010 : 13:23:47
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| A big congratulations on your first go. Although you lost a couple i would say you`ve done really well. Who needs a Spider and a Pastel when you have 2 Bumblebees? You can get them next year. |
Royals owned "lots"
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2010 : 18:58:23
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You know what's really daft? (I'm trying out my new Brit-lish word!)
I like the normal better than the bee... The normal got really bright after shed and with all the brown shades going on, he matches my furniture perfectly!
The bees are very very pale - like some freakish horror movie scary snake.  |
Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
1.0.0 normal western hognose |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2010 : 19:14:42
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| They feeding yet? |
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lee2308
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2597 Posts |
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Welly
Yearling
United Kingdom
423 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2010 : 19:46:59
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I'd say that is was a successfull clutch to be fair.
If one was wrapped up thats nothing you could have done. so if that was taken into account you'd have 4/5. |
0.1.0 Royal Python
0.0.1 Mexican Black King
1.0.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa |
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Maternal incubation
