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Margwar
Yearling
United Kingdom
211 Posts |
 Posted - 09/03/2011 : 08:50:29
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I'm going to start back in the beginning with this thread, my boyfriend has had Margwar for 10 years, he has always had a heat mat, without a thermostat, up until about a year or so ago, maybe a bit longer we had no trouble, until one day we noticed the heat mat had stopped working, we replaced it. The problem we now have is how hot this new heat mat is getting, the old heat mat was just warm to the touch with 7 sheets of newspaper on top (yes we counted so it was the same each time and we didn't block off too much heat with more sheets than necessary or vice versa) Any way, the new heat mat (until recently) had 12 sheets of newspaper, a piece of probably about 5mm thick wood, and it was still a little to hot, so we've been trying various things to cool it down, adding more things on top to prevent as much heat getting through.
At the moment, as well as the 12 sheets of newspaper, there is also a sandstone paving slab on top of it, the slab warmed up just nicely, but now after a week or so, I personally think it's getting way too hot again, so fake leaves over the top now to try reduce the temperature again.
I'm debating just getting a new mat, as I said before we never had any trouble with the old ones, but knowing my luck I'd end up getting on that got too hot again. I've been looking at thermostats and I'm stuck between the mat stat and the temperature stat.
We have those plain manual sticky thermometers in there, they read about 70F all day, both ends, occasionally the cold end will get hotter due to the window being next to the warm end >.< (Bit of a fail I know) But he eats fine, he sheds fine, he poos fine, and he's happy to be handled, and he's been doing good for the 10 years he's been in the vivarium.
What would people suggest in regards to the heat mat, he does use it, he uses both ends of his vivarium, so I'm assuming the temperatures are right, but the main thing that I'm a little confused about is, if I have the probe directly on the mat, what temperature do I set it to?
I wish that old mat was still working!
Edit : Because I forgot to mention that he also has a standard house hold bulb for lighting, which we both agree isn't needed, but makes viewing him a lot easier! I don't think it gives off that much heat though to be honest. |
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Edited by - Margwar on 09/03/2011 08:52:44 |
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nok1888
Yearling
United Kingdom
314 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 09:29:48
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I'd say ALWAYS use a mat stat on a mat but even at that i wouldnt but a lot of people do. Heres how ive got mine - IR bulb, no mat. My temps are
Hot side basking area 33C
Cold side outside hide 25C
Hot hide (inside) 28.5C
Cold hide (inside) 24.4C
Its the basking area thats to be 31-33C not inside the hide. My set up gives Orlina 3 choices 24, 28 or 33C.
Anyway, i'd advice if your going to stick to the mat get a mat stat ive seen too many horror pictures of heavy bodied snakes burned due to thermal blocking. If you like a light for viewing switch to an IR Bulb its great for the heat source and gives off red light which snakes cant see.
If you go for the bulb set your basking temp at about 32C but if your sticking to the mat get the stat (cant be said often enough) and put the probe under his hide and set to about 29C
Thats my advice an Orlina seems happy with it she uses cold and hot hides and likes to bask so I think its all ok |
0.1.0 Royal Normal - Orlina Bodhi Lobsang
1.0.0 Royal Normal - Sedrick Rinzen Sonam
2.0.0 Cats 18 y/o - Monty, kitten - Dodger
2.0.0 Border Collie's 7 y/o - Jinky, 2 y/o - Chance
0.0.5 Goldfish - Haggis, Pookie, Oddball, Spongebob and Slimey (kids eh lol)
Strange creature, unknown species, wife likes to call it "teenage daughter"
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hodgie
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1197 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 10:57:50
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| You need a stat irrespective of what ever form of heating you use. |
Royals owned "lots"
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Margwar
Yearling
United Kingdom
211 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 12:28:09
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quote:
Originally posted by hodgie
You need a stat irrespective of what ever form of heating you use.
Not being funny, that doesn't really answer my question, I've said that I'm going to get a stat, but I'm unsure which to get and at what temperature to set it, however nok1888 has answered the temperature question. |
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 12:41:23
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I find this stat business infuriating.
If we can buy an electric blanket with heating controls, why can't we buy a reptile heat mat with similar controls? (Some may say, well, it would cost more. Fine, that's fair enough. I'd have to pay the extra anyway, when I buy the stat.)
Your old heating mat sounds very similar to a mat I had 20 years ago for my cats, that just gave out gentle heat. If you place a hand on one of the reptile heating mats sold nowadays, the heat it emits, unstatted, is frightening.
Also these mats, even when statted, may still overheat due to thermal blocking ie anything thick placed on top. (Again, if I can bask on my electric blanket all night, secure in the knowledge of its safety cut out, why can't a reptile heat mat be manufactured with the same safety guard?)
It does my head in, so it does. But ... the fact remains ... we have to have stats ...grr! 
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Margwar
Yearling
United Kingdom
211 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 12:46:23
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quote:
Originally posted by BurnedAtTheStake
I find this stat business infuriating.
If we can buy an electric blanket with heating controls, why can't we buy a reptile heat mat with similar controls? (Some may say, well, it would cost more. Fine, that's fair enough. I'd have to pay the extra anyway, when I buy the stat.)
Your old heating mat sounds very similar to a mat I had 20 years ago for my cats, that just gave out gentle heat. If you place a hand on one of the reptile heating mats sold nowadays, the heat it emits, unstatted, is frightening.
Also these mats, even when statted, may still overheat due to thermal blocking ie anything thick placed on top. (Again, if I can bask on my electric blanket all night, secure in the knowledge of its safety cut out, why can't a reptile heat mat be manufactured with the same safety guard?)
It does my head in, so it does. But ... the fact remains ... we have to have stats ...grr!
I know exactly what you mean! It would be so much easier if they came with some kind of control, something simple just to turn it off when it got too hot and some kind of alarm, but alas.
I just checked the heat of the rock, and it's a lot hotter than what I first thought, so I'm going to get a thermometer stat, going to check with a newly opened place first (They've got 15% off habistat's) and see how expensive they are, probably work out cheaper to drive to them than buy offline.
I just went to one place that sells reptiles, they sell everything but stats......... Annoying! |
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Snecklifter
Yearling
United Kingdom
144 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 12:47:50
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There are a few good brands on the market. I used 'Lucky Reptile' stats until I switched to bulbs.
I'm not sure why you'd want to measure the temperatures inside the hides to be honest. But anyway, you need to get decent themometers I'd say, that way you'll hace a better idea of how your mat is performing. Have the mat covering only 1/3 to 1/s of the vivarium floor and if the sensor is just above the mat, set it at the temperature you want the hot side to be. Then monitor temperature and adjust the mat temperature until the required ambient is achieved.
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0.0.1 Royal 'Trowzer' |
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Margwar
Yearling
United Kingdom
211 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 13:06:10
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| The ambient temperature in his viv is the same both ends, the reason I checked the temperature of his hide is because that is where he goes when he is cold, and I've used a proper thermometer to check the temperature of the mat, which was reading around 35. He doesn't bask, he's always just curled up under the hide on the hot end when he needs to, so that's why the temperature in the hide is important, the mat doesn't heat the air, or change the ambient temperature. |
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Snecklifter
Yearling
United Kingdom
144 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 14:25:41
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To be honest, and I'm sure plenty will agree, your setup would be better off with an IR bulb (or similar) at one end. Ditch the mat, its a big snake anyway and that way you'll achieve a recommended thermal gradient in the vivarium.
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0.0.1 Royal 'Trowzer' |
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Margwar
Yearling
United Kingdom
211 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 14:31:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Snecklifter
To be honest, and I'm sure plenty will agree, your setup would be better off with an IR bulb (or similar) at one end. Ditch the mat, its a big snake anyway and that way you'll achieve a recommended thermal gradient in the vivarium.
They may agree, but considering he has been fine for 10 years, I'm not about to go and change it all. |
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 14:56:49
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Hi, sorry, we overlapped and yeah I overlooked the 'kinds of stat' question too. Sorry.
There is a sticky on this - I think at the beginning of this section. Also if you google 'Blue Lizard Reptile Supplies' they have a big selection of stats so you can see what you're buying. They're also very helpful and knowledgeable if you want to ring and ask questions.
AH YES - AND they've got a special offer on the microclimate ministat mat stat at the moment, I think - at least I saw it a couple of days ago.
Mat stats are pretty straightforward. When it comes to bulbs it gets a bit more complicated, although a pulse proportional stat, generally used for lightless ceramic bulbs, can be used for mats too.
One other thing that drives me mad about stats. Don't take the temp setting too seriously. Just keep tweaking it until your thermometer registers the desired temp ....stats! Aaargh!!
Good luck.
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Margwar
Yearling
United Kingdom
211 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 15:06:10
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quote:
Originally posted by BurnedAtTheStake
Hi, sorry, we overlapped and yeah I overlooked the 'kinds of stat' question too. Sorry.
There is a sticky on this - I think at the beginning of this section. Also if you google 'Blue Lizard Reptile Supplies' they have a big selection of stats so you can see what you're buying. They're also very helpful and knowledgeable if you want to ring and ask questions.
AH YES - AND they've got a special offer on the microclimate ministat mat stat at the moment, I think - at least I saw it a couple of days ago.
Mat stats are pretty straightforward. When it comes to bulbs it gets a bit more complicated, although a pulse proportional stat, generally used for lightless ceramic bulbs, can be used for mats too.
One other thing that drives me mad about stats. Don't take the temp setting too seriously. Just keep tweaking it until your thermometer registers the desired temp ....stats! Aaargh!!
Good luck.
Thanks, I just ordered a micro climate mini stat, I was tempted by the mat stat from habistat, but the lack of numbers on the dial put me off, and I'm a bit strapped for cash at the moment and the mini stat isn't too expensive (I did look on Blue Lizard, but E-bay was a little cheaper :P)
I did read that the temperatures can be a little off and to use an individual thermometer to check the temperatures.
Hopefully that stat'll be here soon, preferably after Margwar's shed, I don't fancy changing the temperature's too much mid shedding cycle. |
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 15:11:37
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| Good luck - yeah, the numbers don't matter really. Clockwise is 'up' and anticlockwise is 'down' and you'll probably need a tiny screwdriver to adjust the thing. It will still drift, I'm afraid, or at least mine do. I have heard other people on here say that theirs keep steady though. |
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Margwar
Yearling
United Kingdom
211 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 15:14:52
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| I'm sure a couple of degrees won't harm, considering he's used to not having temperature control at all. The one I've ordered does have the numbers on it, hopefully it'll be reasonably accurate though. |
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scubadude
Yearling
United Kingdom
326 Posts |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 18:17:11
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I thought that you had to control the ambient temperature for a royal at around the 25 degrees mark. and then provide a basking area/hotspot at around 32 degrees. I know this is only reccommended but I think also unachievable with a heat mat. I've been setting up a RUB setup for a Boa that has very similar requirements to a Royal and I'm findng it very difficult to get the setup right.
I use habistat products, I have 3 mat-stats that have never faultered and 2 dimming stats for bulbs and they are absolutely perfect. But a stat is a stat they all do the job. |
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scubadude
Yearling
United Kingdom
326 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 19:03:15
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all my lot are in RUBs on heat mats and have no problem at all keeping warm ends at the required temps and ambients as they should be, but always had a problem controlling temps in a Faun.
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1.0 Classic corn snake
2.3 Normal Royal
1.1 spider royal
1.0 Mojave Royal
1.0 Butter Royal
0.1 Pastel ph ghost Royal
1.0 Enchi Royal python
1.0 Pastel royal poss ???
1.1 Yellowbelly Royal
1.1 Cinnamon Royal
1.1 Fire Royal
1.1 100% het Clowns
1.1 Crawl cay boas
1.0 Hypo hog island boa
0.1 Hog island Boa
coming soon
0.1 Bumblebee
opinions are like ars*holes, everyone's got one, but you don't need to share them with the world. |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 19:23:18
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| Just a new process for me to be honest give me a vivarium anyday but my RUBs are almost there now. Over cautious I suppose. Though my thermometers have been delayed (cornish crisp Co will not be getting my business again) by a week so far so I'm using temporary dial ones, there are no snakes in the RUBs so figured it would be OK just for testing before the final setup is erm set up. Fauns are like putting the heating on in a convertible, waste of time. Wouldn't have one given. |
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Edited by - Lotabob on 09/03/2011 19:24:19 |
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Margwar
Yearling
United Kingdom
211 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 19:24:55
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quote:
Originally posted by scubadude
Hi margwar get one of these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aquarium-Digital-Thermometer-with-Probe-fish-Tank_W0QQitemZ140468885538QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=216510357098&rvr_id=216510357098&cguid=8b639aee12e0a0aa12f41764ff870afa elastic band onto your mat probe and use this to set the stat, the dials on the mat stats and mini stats aren't exactly accurate mine reads 35 degrees on the dial and the thermometer reads 31.9 degres and i've checked it's calibration, hopefully that will help. 
I've looked at these! I think they'll be the next purchase, for the stat.
I know the standard manual exoterra ones aren't really any good.
quote:
Originally posted by scubadude
all my lot are in RUBs on heat mats and have no problem at all keeping warm ends at the required temps and ambients as they should be, but always had a problem controlling temps in a Faun.
The problem isn't really keeping the ambient temperature, that's good, as I've already said, it's just the heat mat is getting too hot, so I'm getting a stat to sort that out.
As my boyfriend's just said, Fauns are hard to do as they are raised up from the floor a little, we had the same problem with our praying mantis and our scorpion. |
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scubadude
Yearling
United Kingdom
326 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 20:33:11
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| one thing this post does show is the importance of stats, Margwar used a mat unstated for years without any problem, but a new mat was pushing out much more heat. sometimes it's easy for us new snake keepers to forget that the stat isn't just there to keep a stable temp on your heater, it's also a life saver for your snake if the mat throws a wobbler,or if you change your matto a higher wattage. The stat if set correctly will switch off the mat before you get faced with a burned snake and a large vet bill. |
1.0 Classic corn snake
2.3 Normal Royal
1.1 spider royal
1.0 Mojave Royal
1.0 Butter Royal
0.1 Pastel ph ghost Royal
1.0 Enchi Royal python
1.0 Pastel royal poss ???
1.1 Yellowbelly Royal
1.1 Cinnamon Royal
1.1 Fire Royal
1.1 100% het Clowns
1.1 Crawl cay boas
1.0 Hypo hog island boa
0.1 Hog island Boa
coming soon
0.1 Bumblebee
opinions are like ars*holes, everyone's got one, but you don't need to share them with the world. |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 20:34:38
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quote:
Originally posted by scubadude
one thing this post does show is the importance of stats, Margwar used a mat unstated for years without any problem, but a new mat was pushing out much more heat. sometimes it's easy for us new snake keepers to forget that the stat isn't just there to keep a stable temp on your heater, it's also a life saver for your snake if the mat throws a wobbler,or if you change your matto a higher wattage. The stat if set correctly will switch off the mat before you get faced with a burned snake and a large vet bill.
Very good point. |
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To stat or not to stat
