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Lorraine
Yearling
United Kingdom
480 Posts |
 Posted - 20/08/2011 : 11:34:34
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I've been doing a lot of reading the last day or so and now have questions. I swear the more you read, the more worried you get.
I have put a humidity box in Oscar's viv with damp paper towel on the base. He spends a lot of time in there (like a hide I suppose) but now I've read about blisters and stuff and that damp substrate can cause it. Should I remove the damp towel and just put that in when he's shedding?
Secondly, I've just been reading the Microclimate site. I don't have a thermostat on my heat mat so I will definitely be getting one, but...it says not to put a hide on the substrate that covers the heat mat but that is exactly where Oscar's is,(where I was told to put it) so he's warm when he's in his hide. Should I move it or what? I was under the impression that they needed a warm place to lay as opposed to, or as well as, warm air temp, so I'm proper confused now.
I have one of those round thermometers on the back of the viv, warm end, about 4 inches above ground level and it reads about 22º but now I'm thinking this is nowhere near warm enough. I'm surprised he seems to be doing so well and eating if I've got all this wrong. |
1.0.0 CB11 Normal Royal, Oscar.
1.0.0 German Shepherd, Bailey.
Still lots to learn. |
Edited by - Lorraine on 20/08/2011 11:38:34 |
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7384 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2011 : 13:48:38
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Hi, I know what you mean - you can go into info overload and virtually self-destruct with anxiety ...
First of all, is the heat mat in the enclosure with Oscar? Heat mats are fine for young royals, but there have been instances of heavy-bodied snakes (ie older royals) basking on heat mats and causing thermal blocking and overheating, even on statted mats. As the snake cannot sense heat to its belly in the way that a mammal can, this can result in serious burns. Rare, but better to be safe than to be sorry, and this is also probably why you're advised not to put a hide on top of the mat, for fear of a heavy object causing thermal blocking too.
However, a couple of my smaller corns have heatmats, and hides on top of the mat; cardboard hides are fine and I reckon the ones with no bottoms are okay too; I keep the substrate to a thin layer but avoid putting anything thick or heavy on the mat, such as driftwood or water bowl.
All the other, larger, snakes have infra red bulbs, statted and guarded. The corns and Ziska, the gopher, could have mats, no problem, as they're slender-bodied, but an adult corn, like any snake of good size, can wee in massive quantities ...believe me, with a heat mat, that's humidity you DON'T want ...ewwww!! Plus, heat mats aren't guaranteed waterproof ... IMO, heatmats are better beneath vivs and fauns than beneath a snake, for safety and smelly reasons.
When a royal is shedding, once it's cleared, I just put the waterbowl in the hot end. Humidity is upped by the extra evaporation, job done. Some people lay a wet flannel on top of the hot end hide, for the same reason (keep it wet, of course.) So you don't really need to provide a damp hide or worry about the snake using it or lying on damp stuff too long.
Your temps ...you definitely need a stat, but don't go by the temp on the stat as the dratted things just aren't reliable - you have to twiddle about and rely on the thermometer rather than the stat. You have him in an enclosure with a mesh top, right? These aren't ideal for royals as a lot of heat's lost out of the top. You might find that putting a thick towel or similar over the enclosure keeps heat in and ups the temp for a start ...a thermometer 4" above the mat will only measure the ambient temp though and not the temp on the mat, but before this alarms you further, I must say I'm not an authority on thermometers as I use one of those temp gun thingies, and other people will know more than me ...well they will anyway lol!
Hope this helps and isn't more confusing, and sorry if I overlapped with anyone else. All the best with him - you'll get there.
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Edited by - n/a on 20/08/2011 13:50:49 |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2011 : 14:17:54
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Pretty much covered it all there BATS and I agree that heat mats are not friends of the Royal Python, nor are mesh toppped terrariums, not that they can't be worked with its just not ideal. I would always have at least 2 hides, one in the hot end and one in the cooler end this gives them a choice of temperature without having to sacrifice their privacy. If the heat mat is inside the terrarium then it is going to need to be moved or statted as a matter of urgency, I wouldn't have any animal in contact with an uncontrolled heat source, putting it underneath the tank is probably just going to make it worse too as the weight of the tank will cause thermal blocking itself causing the mat to give off more heat. I'd save yourself the hassle of changing heat source in a few months and just go for a bulb setup, there are a few options (Infra red or ceramic) but in the long run it will save you time and probably money. Invest in a couple of good digital thermometers, the ones with the wired probes will probably be easiest, one needs to be at the hottest place in the tank, in this instance as close to the heat mat as the snake could possibly get (if the mat is inside stick the priobe to the mat) this is your hot spot reading, the other one you can put away from the heat source and this is your ambient reading, hot spots should be around 32oC but not over 35oC and ambient anywhaer around the 24-27oC mark. The dial thermometers are only ever going to read the ambient air temperature and even then they are not accurate.
It may be that your set up is providing the perfect conditions for Oscar right now (other than the obvious safety risk of an unstatted heat source) but its unknown exactly whats going on in their and thats when you worry, a few pound spent on good monitoring and control equipment will put your mind at rest, its a nice feeling knowing everything is running exactly as it should be. I have a bank of 12 different temperature and humidity readings and in a quick glance I can tell exactly what is going on in my vivariums, RUB's and spider boxes, that kind of reassurance is priceless. |
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acd1984
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
687 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2011 : 17:00:23
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Humidity - I have found that putting a little fresh bark in the warm side gives a nice amount of humidity to a rub (i avoid any areas where my royal lays for a long time i.e under and in-front of the hide) works a treat.
I must admit that i have only just bought a stat for my rub, but george was fine, so long as its not inside and your snake has somewhere else to hide it should be fine (temporarily). A unstated (7w) matt reads at about 35 degrees under a rub, you could add more bedding to absorb some of the heat.
Alternatively you could put the mat on the side wall where he cant reach (but never tried that so dont know how good it would work) |
1.0.0 Lesser - Helios
2.0.0 Normal - George & Kairo
1.0.0 Mojave - Bolt
0.1.0 Mojave - Roxi
1.0.0 Leopard Gecko - Leo
0.0.1 Crocodile gecko - Pheonix
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Evolution Morphs
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2265 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2011 : 17:09:02
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Stat stat stat
Top of your list as well as removing the mat from inside the exo terra
Thats if it's inside
Bigdon just wondered why you make it sound ok with an unstated mat
Ok you was getting 35c but if there's a hot day say 27/30 c the mats going to hit 40+ c
Must get a stat Lorraine or you will probley run into feeding problems
To hot a temp may bring on ir as well
Don't mean to scare you but it's best to take care of your royal and he will reward you ;)
Bats and bob are very clued up so you can't go wrong ;) |
now on facebook
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Western Hognose |
Edited by - Evolution Morphs on 20/08/2011 17:11:47 |
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n/a
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7384 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2011 : 17:22:18
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| LOL thanks D3l - but when I first started I was sold kit with unstatted mat etc ......luckily the snakes thrived but I was very lucky (and so were they!!) and then I found the forums ...you live and you learn eh? |
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Edited by - n/a on 20/08/2011 17:23:36 |
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Evolution Morphs
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2265 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2011 : 17:26:35
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That's was probably amlong time ago bats ?
I was sold a bulb £4.99 / bulb guard £19.99 ( shakes head ) from a a pet shop for the wife's corns
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now on facebook
Royal Pythons
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Western Hognose |
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2011 : 17:33:00
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Less than 2 years ...
I would never have come across all this info save for buying Cy (Cyclops) in May last year and asking a question on the darkside about ...errrm!!! one eyed snakes LOL!
Having got over that, I started reading and learning, then bought Shahi and got advised by a lovely guy (Nelly1) on darkside to look at TRP ...the rest as they say is history ...
Ohhh, shop prices ...tell me about it! Blue Lizard have got guards for £8 ...again you live and you learn...? |
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Edited by - n/a on 20/08/2011 17:36:49 |
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Evolution Morphs
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2265 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2011 : 17:50:16
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£8 :( thanks for that :( lol
oh yes you live and learn
i only use Surrey pets now ;)
that have very cheap thermostat at the minute ;) |
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Western Hognose |
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Lorraine
Yearling
United Kingdom
480 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2011 : 18:19:27
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| OK, thanks guys. The mat is inside the viv as I thought if it was outside underneath, he wouldn't feel any heat. I will get a stat asap next week. |
1.0.0 CB11 Normal Royal, Oscar.
1.0.0 German Shepherd, Bailey.
Still lots to learn. |
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acd1984
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
687 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2011 : 23:03:48
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quote:
Bigdon just wondered why you make it sound ok with an unstated mat
Ok you was getting 35c but if there's a hot day say 27/30 c the mats going to hit 40+ c
this is what i did on the advice of the rep shop that sold me the snake, and never had any problems (never a feed missed), Although stats are important, I think your scare mongering is over the top
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1.0.0 Lesser - Helios
2.0.0 Normal - George & Kairo
1.0.0 Mojave - Bolt
0.1.0 Mojave - Roxi
1.0.0 Leopard Gecko - Leo
0.0.1 Crocodile gecko - Pheonix
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Evolution Morphs
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2265 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2011 : 23:24:53
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It won't be over the top if it does happen
I'm not going to go into this
But if you want to say heat mats are ok to use without stats
(which I will add that's it's in the viv)/
That's fine by me I just hope the person your telling knows better ! |
now on facebook
Royal Pythons
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Western Hognose |
Edited by - Evolution Morphs on 20/08/2011 23:28:02 |
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acd1984
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
687 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2011 : 01:08:02
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Yeah didnt see that its a viv being used in which case the heat mat would be inside and much worse could happen. I think a heat mat on the outside is ok short term until a stat can be aquired.
Instead of a mat stat i went straight for a dimmer stat so that a new one wouldnt be needed when mine goes into the viv. |
1.0.0 Lesser - Helios
2.0.0 Normal - George & Kairo
1.0.0 Mojave - Bolt
0.1.0 Mojave - Roxi
1.0.0 Leopard Gecko - Leo
0.0.1 Crocodile gecko - Pheonix
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Heat mats and humidity.
