| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| ballgirl |
Posted - 15/01/2011 : 11:18:59
Ok, I posted this in the Vivarium size thread, but nobody seems to be answering it there. So I thought I'd ask it again in a separate thread and see if we get any more responses.
Hi, I'm a Royal owner to be, doing my pre-purchase research, so be gentle :)
I've been reading the Viv size thread with interest as I'm trying to decide what to do. I'm not on a tight budget and want to get the best stuff I can, so I was planning on getting a 3ft viv from the start but others have said a much smaller plastic box is the way to go for a 12-18" hatchling - something like the large flat faunarium or a 9l Rub.
The way I see it though, is that a larger viv with lamp would be easier to maintain a decent hot end and cold end gradient than an 18" long plastic box with a heat mat. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not talking from experience, but I can't see how such a small space can create the kind of hot end\cold end requirements everyone says Royals need - I can just imagine the small space being the same temp all over.
As has been mentioned in the Viv Size thread, as long as there is a choice of hides that are the right size and in all parts of the viv, with plenty of foliage to break up the open spaces, I can't see the reason for a small enclosure?
Loads of people say that snakes are notorious escape artists - even Royals. Doesn't that tell us that sometimes the Viv is actually too small and that they want to have a roam about? As Benji54 says in the Viv Size thread, the wild is a large place and yes, although they choose to sit in a small burrow for hours, doesn't mean they stay there permanently. I'd like to give my Royal the choice - to roam or hide.
Wouldn't Keeping a snake in a small enclosure also limit muscle growth because they aren't able to roam and climb if they wanted to (I know they're not arboreal snakes, but I gather that sometimes they do climb)? I really don't like the thought of my snake being in a box that's only 15-17cm high - how can that be good if my 12-18 inch snake wants to have a good stretch up?
I'm being a bit selfish with this question, I know and will openly admit that, because I would rather have a nice looking viv than a plastic box. I think my arguments are very relevant ones (I could just ignore what I've read so far and do what I want) but I want to do the right thing for my snake.
So if people can actually tell me of genuine problems they've had with small Royals in a 3ft Viv, that would be a great help. I WILL go with a faunarium or RUB if people can convince me it's definitely the right way to go for the health of the snake. But the responses to this question always seem like the "stock" answer that has been handed down and I don't know if people have actually had problems personally where the size of the enclosure has been proven to be the reason. The arguments for a small enclosure just don't seem to add up without evidence, if you know what I mean....
Please don't flame me... I'm just asking because I don't understand. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ballgirl |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 16:55:35
quote:
Originally posted by anatess
I'm a nincompoop. I went and edited my post...
It is supposed to be THERMOSTAT probe in between the heat mat and the bottom of the RUB... both outside the RUB.
I edited my post too - I was misunderstanding it anyway! Got it now though! :) |
| anatess |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 16:52:05
quote:
Originally posted by ballgirl
quote:
Originally posted by anatess
It is recommended to have your thermostat probe directly placed on your heat mat and then the thermometer probe right on top of your substrate.
I have my thermometer probe stuck between the heat mat and the RUB. Both of them are outside of the RUB.
The reason why we do it this way is because there's a lag for the heat mat to react to the probe and then another lag for the heat to dissipate into the viv. Therefore, we want to be sure that the heat mat never goes higher than a certain set temperature (mine is set at 95F) - regardless of the temperature in the viv.
In my set-up, I have the RUB with half an inch of Aspen substrate. My hides have a bottom piece and then about a quarter inch substrate inside the hides. My thermostat probe is outside the RUB between the heat mat and the bottom of the RUB placed directly under the hide. My thermometer probe is sitting inside the hide to measure hot belly temp. With a 95F setting on the thermostat, the thermometer reads 90-92F depending on whether the snake is in the hide or not.
This is the recommended set-up by all the "experts" here in the States.
Thanks Anatess. I have to admit you have me a little confused though  First you say both thermostat and thermometer probes are outside the Rub, then you say your thermometer probe is inside the hot hide... Which is it? Or do you do both?
:)
I'm a nincompoop. I went and edited my post...
It is supposed to be THERMOSTAT probe in between the heat mat and the bottom of the RUB... both outside the RUB.
|
| ballgirl |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 16:50:21
quote:
Originally posted by louise32
quote:
Originally posted by ballgirl
quote:
Originally posted by Royalbob
Floor temp by hot hide wants to read 90F can drop down a few degrees at night which it will do naturally. just run the cable through the lid. Really you should be able to just glance at your thermometer and check the temp otherwise it becomes hard work.
I'm not sure the slits in the lid are big enough to run the cable through, but I'll have a look when I get home. Thanks
I found the slits in the lid are flexible enough to push the probe through. I did snap one of the little plastc bits off the first time I did it but just wrapped a bit of kitchen roll round the wire to plug the gap, but it's not a big enough gap for a royal to get through.
Cool, thanks Louise32 |
| louise32 |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 16:47:09
quote:
Originally posted by ballgirl
quote:
Originally posted by Royalbob
Floor temp by hot hide wants to read 90F can drop down a few degrees at night which it will do naturally. just run the cable through the lid. Really you should be able to just glance at your thermometer and check the temp otherwise it becomes hard work.
I'm not sure the slits in the lid are big enough to run the cable through, but I'll have a look when I get home. Thanks
I found the slits in the lid are flexible enough to push the probe through. I did snap one of the little plastc bits off the first time I did it but just wrapped a bit of kitchen roll round the wire to plug the gap, but it's not a big enough gap for a royal to get through. |
| ballgirl |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 16:43:26
quote:
Originally posted by anatess
It is recommended to have your thermostat probe directly placed on your heat mat and then the thermometer probe right on top of your substrate.
I have my thermometer probe stuck between the heat mat and the RUB. Both of them are outside of the RUB.
The reason why we do it this way is because there's a lag for the heat mat to react to the probe and then another lag for the heat to dissipate into the viv. Therefore, we want to be sure that the heat mat never goes higher than a certain set temperature (mine is set at 95F) - regardless of the temperature in the viv.
In my set-up, I have the RUB with half an inch of Aspen substrate. My hides have a bottom piece and then about a quarter inch substrate inside the hides. My thermostat probe is outside the RUB between the heat mat and the bottom of the RUB placed directly under the hide. My thermometer probe is sitting inside the hide to measure hot belly temp. With a 95F setting on the thermostat, the thermometer reads 90-92F depending on whether the snake is in the hide or not.
This is the recommended set-up by all the "experts" here in the States.
Thanks Anatess. I have to admit you have me a little confused though First you say both thermostat and thermometer probes are outside the Rub, then you say your thermometer probe is inside the hot hide... Which is it? Or do you do both?
:)
Ah - I see. Where you said "both are outside the rub", you meant the heat mat and the thermostat probe, not the thermometer probe and the thermostat probe! My apologies! |
| ballgirl |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 16:40:08
quote:
Originally posted by Royalbob
Floor temp by hot hide wants to read 90F can drop down a few degrees at night which it will do naturally. just run the cable through the lid. Really you should be able to just glance at your thermometer and check the temp otherwise it becomes hard work.
I'm not sure the slits in the lid are big enough to run the cable through, but I'll have a look when I get home. Thanks |
| anatess |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 16:17:29
It is recommended to have your thermostat probe directly placed on your heat mat and then the thermometer probe right on top of your substrate.
I have my thermostat probe stuck between the heat mat and the RUB. Both of them are outside of the RUB.
The reason why we do it this way is because there's a lag for the heat mat to react to the probe and then another lag for the heat to dissipate into the viv. Therefore, we want to be sure that the heat mat never goes higher than a certain set temperature (mine is set at 95F) - regardless of the temperature in the viv.
In my set-up, I have the RUB with half an inch of Aspen substrate. My hides have a bottom piece and then about a quarter inch substrate inside the hides. My thermostat probe is outside the RUB between the heat mat and the bottom of the RUB placed directly under the hide. My thermometer probe is sitting inside the hide to measure hot belly temp. With a 95F setting on the thermostat, the thermometer reads 90-92F depending on whether the snake is in the hide or not.
This is the recommended set-up by all the "experts" here in the States. |
| ballgirl |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 16:11:33
I've just been reading another forum regarding faunariums as well and they suggest that they have too much ventilation to keep the temp up properly.
Does anyone have any suggestions as how this can be improved? I was thinking we could tape up the lid vents and just leave the ones on the side of the box, or would you do it the other way around? Or neither - is it ok as it is?! I'm not sure how I'd feel about taping them up, snakey might get his tongue stuck when he's on a wander!
I'm a bit confused now. The guy I bought this setup off got good reviews on another forum and seemed to be well known for being great with his advice, but now I'm starting to question it, which is not a good feeling :( |
| Royalbob |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 16:11:10
Floor temp by hot hide wants to read 90F can drop down a few degrees at night which it will do naturally. just run the cable through the lid. Really you should be able to just glance at your thermometer and check the temp otherwise it becomes hard work. |
| ballgirl |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 15:50:34
quote:
Originally posted by louise32
My new King is in a 9L rub (very simlar saize to an 18 inch faun)
The heat mat is underneath the rub.
My thermometer probe and thermostat probe are tied together with a small rubber band and both are inside the rub, with the probes touching the base just above the heat mat.
This way the thermometer and thermostat are reading from the same place which is also the warmest place that my snake can get to. This way I can be sure that the temps inside the rub are exactly as they should be.
I don't think it's any good monitoring the temp outside the rub/faun as they can be very different to the inside temps which is where your snake will be.
Hope that makes sense, I can be terrible at explaining things at times
Yep, definitely makes sense. What temp should it be on the floor of the faun inside?
I guess the problem for me is that I don't have any cable holes in the faunarium to run the probes in there permanently, so I guess if I can confirm the temp on the floor the way it currently is, that would at least mean I know that my current method of heating is ok....
|
| Royalbob |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 15:33:33
quote:
Originally posted by louise32
quote:
Originally posted by ballgirl
quote:
Originally posted by jo-jo-beans
Had a wee read through this thread and found it very interesting. Like yourself Ballgirl, im pretty new to royals, only had my wee Sunshine for a few weeks now. He's a CB 10 (birthday in august :-) and I put him straight into a 3ft viv, as I was really struggling with temps for the rub.
There should be pictures of the viv about.
He's taken to it really well, just had his 3rd feed with me (YAY) on rat weaners, and he's striking like a maniac!!! He's also a climber and explores everywhere, through his tunnels and various hides.
So, im guessing (being a newbie an all) it really depends on the snake.
Thanks Jo-Jo-Beans,
I did read your thread and this was partly why I was thinking it's so hard to keep a smaller enclosure at the right temps.
I think I will keep him in his 18" faunarium for now and see how he feeds - we haven't tried to feed him yet. I'm not 100% sure about the temps of the faun if I'm honest. The guy who I bought him off told me to put the thermometer on the mat itself, with the thermostat probe next to it and set the thermostat to 33.5 degrees - so that when the thermometer reads this figure, the stat turns the mat off. It drops about 4 degrees and then starts up again. But I don't know what temp that makes it inside the faun. I might move the temp probe at the weekend and take some readings from there. I would be happier if I knew the temp inside I have to admit.
Anyone with any ideas if I should be doing something different, please speak up!
My new King is in a 9L rub (very simlar saize to an 18 inch faun)
The heat mat is underneath the rub.
My thermometer probe and thermostat probe are tied together with a small rubber band and both are inside the rub, with the probes touching the base just above the heat mat.
This way the thermometer and thermostat are reading from the same place which is also the warmest place that my snake can get to. This way I can be sure that the temps inside the rub are exactly as they should be.
I don't think it's any good monitoring the temp outside the rub/faun as they can be very different to the inside temps which is where your snake will be.
Hope that makes sense, I can be terrible at explaining things at times
I gotcha and you've got yours set up right  |
| louise32 |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 15:08:15
quote:
Originally posted by ballgirl
quote:
Originally posted by jo-jo-beans
Had a wee read through this thread and found it very interesting. Like yourself Ballgirl, im pretty new to royals, only had my wee Sunshine for a few weeks now. He's a CB 10 (birthday in august :-) and I put him straight into a 3ft viv, as I was really struggling with temps for the rub.
There should be pictures of the viv about.
He's taken to it really well, just had his 3rd feed with me (YAY) on rat weaners, and he's striking like a maniac!!! He's also a climber and explores everywhere, through his tunnels and various hides.
So, im guessing (being a newbie an all) it really depends on the snake.
Thanks Jo-Jo-Beans,
I did read your thread and this was partly why I was thinking it's so hard to keep a smaller enclosure at the right temps.
I think I will keep him in his 18" faunarium for now and see how he feeds - we haven't tried to feed him yet. I'm not 100% sure about the temps of the faun if I'm honest. The guy who I bought him off told me to put the thermometer on the mat itself, with the thermostat probe next to it and set the thermostat to 33.5 degrees - so that when the thermometer reads this figure, the stat turns the mat off. It drops about 4 degrees and then starts up again. But I don't know what temp that makes it inside the faun. I might move the temp probe at the weekend and take some readings from there. I would be happier if I knew the temp inside I have to admit.
Anyone with any ideas if I should be doing something different, please speak up!
My new King is in a 9L rub (very simlar saize to an 18 inch faun)
The heat mat is underneath the rub.
My thermometer probe and thermostat probe are tied together with a small rubber band and both are inside the rub, with the probes touching the base just above the heat mat.
This way the thermometer and thermostat are reading from the same place which is also the warmest place that my snake can get to. This way I can be sure that the temps inside the rub are exactly as they should be.
I don't think it's any good monitoring the temp outside the rub/faun as they can be very different to the inside temps which is where your snake will be.
Hope that makes sense, I can be terrible at explaining things at times |
| ballgirl |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 14:43:10
quote:
Originally posted by jo-jo-beans
Had a wee read through this thread and found it very interesting. Like yourself Ballgirl, im pretty new to royals, only had my wee Sunshine for a few weeks now. He's a CB 10 (birthday in august :-) and I put him straight into a 3ft viv, as I was really struggling with temps for the rub.
There should be pictures of the viv about.
He's taken to it really well, just had his 3rd feed with me (YAY) on rat weaners, and he's striking like a maniac!!! He's also a climber and explores everywhere, through his tunnels and various hides.
So, im guessing (being a newbie an all) it really depends on the snake.
Thanks Jo-Jo-Beans,
I did read your thread and this was partly why I was thinking it's so hard to keep a smaller enclosure at the right temps.
I think I will keep him in his 18" faunarium for now and see how he feeds - we haven't tried to feed him yet. I'm not 100% sure about the temps of the faun if I'm honest. The guy who I bought him off told me to put the thermometer on the mat itself, with the thermostat probe next to it and set the thermostat to 33.5 degrees - so that when the thermometer reads this figure, the stat turns the mat off. It drops about 4 degrees and then starts up again. But I don't know what temp that makes it inside the faun. I might move the temp probe at the weekend and take some readings from there. I would be happier if I knew the temp inside I have to admit.
Anyone with any ideas if I should be doing something different, please speak up! |
| chris100575 |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 10:37:07
quote:
Originally posted by ballgirl
Hmm... looks like I'm going to have my work cut out working out how old he is then!
Cut him in two and count the rings? |
| jo-jo-beans |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 10:09:15
Had a wee read through this thread and found it very interesting. Like yourself Ballgirl, im pretty new to royals, only had my wee Sunshine for a few weeks now. He's a CB 10 (birthday in august :-) and I put him straight into a 3ft viv, as I was really struggling with temps for the rub.
There should be pictures of the viv about.
He's taken to it really well, just had his 3rd feed with me (YAY) on rat weaners, and he's striking like a maniac!!! He's also a climber and explores everywhere, through his tunnels and various hides.
So, im guessing (being a newbie an all) it really depends on the snake.
|
| ballgirl |
Posted - 17/01/2011 : 20:17:20
Hmm... looks like I'm going to have my work cut out working out how old he is then!
Although from what the guy in the shop said, he could well be similar to your yellow belly, by all accounts, my yellow belly also eats well! We have obviously yet to see this, but fingers crossed it's true!
Thanks again Kelfezond and Anatess for the info. |
| anatess |
Posted - 17/01/2011 : 17:07:28
Check this picture out. It's a terrible picture - I cannot get all 3 to sit still for a quick shot.
Anyway, the bumblebee on the left and the normal on the right are from the same clutch hatched back on 7/31/2010. The bumblebee is 254g and the normal is 90g. Yes, the normal is the one that had to be force fed. He is eating consistently now starting the New Year. I think he finally made a New Year's Resolution to not give us a hard time!
The yellowbelly in the middle is a beast. He was hatched in mid-August and is 298g!
So yeah, their birthdays doesn't really tell me their size - as you can see, they can vary drastically. |
| ballgirl |
Posted - 17/01/2011 : 11:26:11
quote:
Originally posted by anatess
quote:
Originally posted by Kelfezond
ballgirl has made it clear that she's not the most educated person when it comes to royal pythons so you shouldn't get upset by her lack of knowledge, she's just speaking from what she's looking at in her own way.
The same way I and most of you thought the same thing when we first saw a thousand snakes crammed into a thousand little rubs :)
Point taken, Kel! Thank you. Yes, this shouldn't make me upset since it hasn't been that long ago when I didn't know a thing either. With all the laws we are fighting left and right here in the States attacking the industry and vilifying breeders, sometimes I forget we are all just looking out for the best interest of our crawling friends...
I apologize if I was too harsh.
Ballgirl, you should smack me if I get too dramatic! Like this:  lol.
No worries at all Anatess, I knew I was being potentially antagonistic when I posted, so I got what I deserved. And you were very helpful in your post about viv sizes and your own experiences so I'm very grateful for your contribution. :) |
| Kelfezond |
Posted - 17/01/2011 : 10:57:30
I'm here to keep the peace hehehe :D
Also ballgirl it's hard to tell, I have two snakes the same weight and length at the moment, one was born september 2010 and the other was born march 2010 :O |
| anatess |
Posted - 17/01/2011 : 03:09:51
quote:
Originally posted by Kelfezond
ballgirl has made it clear that she's not the most educated person when it comes to royal pythons so you shouldn't get upset by her lack of knowledge, she's just speaking from what she's looking at in her own way.
The same way I and most of you thought the same thing when we first saw a thousand snakes crammed into a thousand little rubs :)
Point taken, Kel! Thank you. Yes, this shouldn't make me upset since it hasn't been that long ago when I didn't know a thing either. With all the laws we are fighting left and right here in the States attacking the industry and vilifying breeders, sometimes I forget we are all just looking out for the best interest of our crawling friends...
I apologize if I was too harsh.
Ballgirl, you should smack me if I get too dramatic! Like this: lol. |
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