| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Lotabob |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 19:34:09
http://www.apa.org.uk/campaigns/handsOff.html
The APA campaign against the exotics trade.
They clearly have very little idea about what it is they are so dead against. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| chrisc |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 07:53:31
best of luck to them in court today lets hope for the right outcome.
i will be joining an donating to the IHS an FBH come payday to help support the great job they do in fighting for our hobby |
| n/a |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 23:12:11
quote:
Originally posted by Lotabob
Won't do you any good, you cant argue or reason with delusion. The annoying thing to me is if these people put their mind and resources into doing something good, something worth while they could maybe make a difference but they have chosen to fight a battle with people who are doing nothing wrong either morally or legally. Us herp keepers want to ensure the health, well being and safety of our animals, surely the reason these forums exist are exactly for that reason, Bats doesn't take a picture of a badly beaten snake, Kelf doesn't post another snuff movie, Janie does subject her snake to her feet but they like it. We all care, they need to understand that and that exotic animals are in the pet trade and like rabbits, gerbils and all the other hundreds, thousands of animals available their owners care and the odd exception of the odd cruel person does not mean we are all that way.
If I came across a 'badly beaten snake' though heaven forbid, yes I would take pictures (although of course I know my photography is laughable) and post on here and rfuk too and involve the rspca and police and whoever I could - while keeping that snake under my protection if I could, with veterinary care of course. |
| Kelfezond |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 22:49:52
Aye best of luck to Chris in court. |
| Evolution Morphs |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 22:46:54
It don't look good
Wait till tomorrow comes
To see what's what |
| Evolution Morphs |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 22:46:23
Response to letter received 14th June, 12.28pm
Re: International Herpetological Breeder’s Meeting, 17th June 2012
Dear Chris
Thank you for your letter received today regarding to the International Herpetological Society’s position in relation to the operation of the event scheduled to take place on Sunday 17th June 2012.
As you aware Doncaster Culture and Leisure Trust met with yourself and Richard Brook to request that the event on Sunday took place with a ruling of no sale of any animal. We were clear that if this request could not be met, Doncaster Culture and Leisure Trust would be unable to allow the event to take place at a venue under the Trust portfolio.
Further to the position outlined in the letter by the International Herpetological Society, it is with regret that I must inform you that Doncaster Culture Leisure Trust will not allow the event to take place at The Dome.
This decision is in relation to the event scheduled on Sunday 17th June 2012.
I would be grateful if you could inform me of your intentions towards the Conference and Function scheduled to take place at The Dome on Saturday 16th June 2012.
Also at the meeting we discussed that once a decision was reached we would issue a joint press release, can I confirm that you still wish to do this? And if so could you please contact me with regard to the proposed wording.
Yours sincerely
Michael Hart
Chief Executive
Doncaster Culture and Leisure Trust
Open Letter to:
Michael Hart, Chief Executive - Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust
cc Jo Miller,Chief Executive - Doncaster Borough Council
Re: International Herpetological Breeders Meeting 17th of June 2012
Dear Michael,
I am afraid that the DCLT’s action is a flagrant breach of its contract with Richard Brook and IHS. Richard and the IHS have been given insufficient notice of all this and have had no time to mitigate their losses. The only sensible option is to issue proceedings and these will be put in hand as soon as possible. Samuel Laughton of Counsel has been retained and our Solicitors will instruct him shortly. The plan is to issue on an emergency basis in the Chancery Division in London with a hearing tomorrow. If DCLT wishes to attend and wishes to be represented you need to answer Matthew Knight’s letter/fax of even date and indicate who is going to deal with this for DCLT. In the absence of any of this our solicitors will issue without formal notice and will go ahead with the injunction application on an exparte basis ie without DCLT present or represented.
Obviously it would be better if DCLT was present and was represented and so I suggest that you organise your solicitors to defend these proceedings and to line Counsel up to represent DCLT in the Chancery Division tomorrow.
As regards to the conference, arrangements for this remain unchanged.
Yours sincerely,
Chris Newman
Chairman Federation of British Herpetologists
14th June, 2012 @ 15:51hrs
cc Knights Solicitors
Rt. Hon Rosie Winterton MP, Doncaster Central
Rt. Hon Ed Miliband MP, Doncaster North
Rt. Hon Caroline Flint MP, Don Valley
Peter Davies, Mayor of Doncaster
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| Evolution Morphs |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 22:45:37
Posted you know where
Chris Newman
Chairman Federation of British Herpetologists
Dear all,
As you are all know doubt aware a matter has arisen in respect of the IHS Breeders Meeting scheduled to take place this Sunday the 17th of June 2012. The information contained within the Animal Protection Agency Press Release dated the 12th of June is, as one would expect, not entirely accurate.
Notwithstanding this there are significant issues with the event, below is an exchange of correspondence between myself and the chief executive of Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust who operate the venue which I believe are self explanatory.
The matter is now in the hands of our legal advisors and this will be in Court tomorrow [15th of June]. I shall post further information as it becomes available. If you are planning to attend the show on the Sunday then please watch this space for updates. Those attending in a formal capacity will be informed by phone of developments as soon as they are known.
The FBH Conference on the Saturday will not be affected.
Thank you for your continuing support.
Regards,
Chris Newman
Chairman Federation of British Herpetologists
Open Letter to:
Michael Hart, Chief Executive - Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust
cc Jo Miller,Chief Executive - Doncaster Borough Council
Re: International Herpetological Breeders Meeting 17th of June 2012
Dear Michael,
Further to the discussions that took place at the meeting on the 12th of June and our subsequent telephone conversations, regrettably we cannot concede to your demands that no animals be sold on the day. As chairman of the Federation of British Herpetologists it is incumbent upon me to represent the best interests of the herpetological community.
The Breeders’ Meeting, at which breeders have always sold and exchanged surplus breeding stock, has taken place at the Dome since 2004. No changes in legislation have been enacted since that time other than the proposed removal of Section 2 of the Pet Animals Act 1951 under the Animal Welfare Act. As you know this proposed change in legislation would be welcomed by the FBH as it would permit such events to be licensed, a position also supported by Doncaster Borough Council in the past.
Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust has entered into a binding contract with the International Herpetological Society to provide facilities for the Society to hold its Breeders’ Meeting on the 17th of June 2012, as it has for the past eight years, and there is no reason why this year’s event cannot proceed as it has previously. It is our understanding that these Breeders Meetings are fully compliant with the law and we are, therefore, unable to change the remit of the event in particular at such short notice. We believe it is unnecessary, unreasonable and disproportionate.
It would be easy for us to agree that no animals would be sold on the day and then to dishonour that commitment. But, unlike our opponents, we operate with the highest levels of integrity and such an action is ethically untenable. It is our firm belief that Breeders’ Meetings are fully compliant with the Pet Animals Act 1951 as amended. I would suggest this view is supported by Doncaster Borough Council who have approved the events over the past eight years and have even attended in an official capacity. In 2010 Doncaster Borough Council sought a barrister’s opinion on the matter and took no action having found no cause for legal or ethical complaint them.
The most logical course of action for all parties is for the event to take place normally and for the authorities take remedial action if they believe any transgressions of the law have taken place.
In our opinion it is patently clear from the meeting on the 12th that Doncaster Borough Council are endeavoring to make Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust the scapegoats and close a lawful event simply because the Council have received criticism from a vocal minority. I am aware of the contractual issues between Doncaster Borough Council and Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust, but I trust that all in authority would act with integrity and not seek punitive retribution should the Trust honor its legal commitments. This behavior would be entirely unethical.
If Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust breaches its contract with the International Herpetological Society and cancels or alters the hire of the facilities for its Breeders’ Meeting on the 17th of June, we have no choice but to take immediate civil litigation to enforce the terms of the contract. We therefore require that you confirm in writing by no later than 15:00hrs today (14th June), the decision of Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust in respect of this matter.
We fully appreciate and regret the pressure that you are under and we were not aware until Tuesday that you had received death threats for allowing the event to run in the past. Organisers and members from the International Herpetological Society have also been threatened and over the past ten years my own home has been attacked six times by fanatical Animal Rights Activists.
We cannot and should not, however, allow threats from a vocal minority to affect the thousands of people who enjoy these events and we must take whatever action is necessary to allow the IHS Breeders’ Meeting to take place this weekend.
Yours sincerely,
Chris Newman
Chairman Federation of British Herpetologists
14th June, 2012 @ 12:00hrs
cc Knights Solicitors
Rt. Hon Rosie Winterton MP, Doncaster Central
Rt. Hon Ed Miliband MP, Doncaster North
Rt. Hon Caroline Flint MP, Don Valley
Peter Davies, Mayor of Doncaster
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| Kelfezond |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 22:32:47
quote:
Originally posted by Lotabob
Kelf doesn't post another snuff movie
Woah hold on there, don't be saying stuff you're not sure of ;)  |
| mattc142 |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 22:13:08
well said lotabob. i basicly said to them that people breed dogs to fight and you find kittens floating in rivers. and if they go to their local rspca they will only find a handfull of reptiles and thousands of dogs and cats and rabbits etc.yet us herp keepers are getting a grillin. but ay let em get on with it ill be getting more snakes if they like it or not they will have to prie them out of my dieing hands lol |
| Lotabob |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 22:02:37
Won't do you any good, you cant argue or reason with delusion. The annoying thing to me is if these people put their mind and resources into doing something good, something worth while they could maybe make a difference but they have chosen to fight a battle with people who are doing nothing wrong either morally or legally. Us herp keepers want to ensure the health, well being and safety of our animals, surely the reason these forums exist are exactly for that reason, Bats doesn't take a picture of a badly beaten snake, Kelf doesn't post another snuff movie, Janie does subject her snake to her feet but they like it. We all care, they need to understand that and that exotic animals are in the pet trade and like rabbits, gerbils and all the other hundreds, thousands of animals available their owners care and the odd exception of the odd cruel person does not mean we are all that way. |
| mattc142 |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 22:01:35
ha ha ha ha i have just given them a rite grilling on face book and they have deleated me with out evern a little arguement. they cant stand hearing our oppinion because they know they are wrong this isnt the last time they will hear from me.lol belive |
| carlb1981 |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 21:58:23
Well I'll definitely be joining the ihs to support them for fighting for our hobby |
| mattc142 |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 21:30:31
i find this web site totaly discusting and they cannot know anything about reptiles as pets. oooooh they have my back up now lol ill be sending them an email belive me, |
| Lotabob |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 21:12:29
I agree better control of the pet trade (all the pet trade) needs to be put in place, not a ban on X Y or Z but licensing, accountability etc. It should be the irresponsible owners that carry the ban not the people selling them unless they too are guilty of neglect or cruelty. I would happily license all my animals, I already have to for my dog. |
| JanieW |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 21:02:43
This is a mine field, and i'm surprised that Doncaster show had a legal ban placed.
The sad fact is on many of the issues raised on that link, there are many instances that they are right.
I know that everybody here, cares for their snakes well and understands their needs, but for every one of us there are half a dozen that don't.
Let me give just three examples that I have discovered in the last 6 weeks:
The petshop where all my snakes came from have a Green Anaconda..it was rescued as the original owner was unaware of the size of a young adult.
The same shop had an adult corn snake, that was found discarded in a dustbin on bin day.
My mother's carer used to have a baby corn snake, she went on holiday and blamed the pet sitter when it was found dead. All she had ever fed it was crickets.
I don't agree with the pet shows either that require animals whether, dogs, cats, birds or rodents to be displayed for hours on end.
Folk here if they don't already know how to care for their snake, ask for help, all are wanting to learn to do the bst for their new pet. Many on the outside don't, they buy a baby snake then discard when it becomes a nuisance, and that is just wrong.
By discard, I am not meaning those owners that seek a new home if they for reasons of their own can no longer offer the care needed, rather I refer to those that throw out their unwanted pet.
Unfortuately these cases are caused by ignorance at best, or cruelty and that needs to be stopped, just not sure how.
Anyway rant over :)
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| carlb1981 |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 20:42:08
I hope they don't stop the selling of exotics at these shows as im hoping to buy a royal morph at one of the shows |
| Kelfezond |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 20:39:07
I don't think anyone is calling APA do gooders, more like terrorists. lol
But I wouldn't really recommend spamming their facebook, it happens all the time they just delete it - I doubt after 10'000 of them they're going to change their mind now. Although I like the way their facebook had like 350 likes, and yet it still seems to have had an effect on closing a show that pulled in thousands and thousands of customers. |
| chrisc |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 20:37:27
the doncaster show has not been banned from selling reptiles, the post/article from the APA is nonsense as they were not at the meeting to discuss the show between the relavant parties
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/858627-ihs-statement-re-breeders-meeting.html |
| carlb1981 |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 20:30:31
That is totally ridiculous how can they even say that about one group of pets/animals i think they must have forgot that some time in history dogs cats and all the other so called domesticated animals were once wild until someone thought they'd like to keep it as a pet and as for saying exotic animals are at risk of not being looked after properly and risk carrying disease what about all the stray cats and dogs roaming the country that have been abandoned and all the dog attacks that make the news will they eventually try and stop the pet trade altogether the majority of people that buy exotic research them before they do so they know the specific needs of the animal they want unlike someone seeing a cute puppy or kitten then impulse buying and when it gets too big or too much hard work for then they just abandon it. hopefully there campaign won't damage they trade and stop our hobby and ruin peoples lives who make a living in the business everyone should join there Facebook group and vent there opinion of these so called do gooders |
| n/a |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 20:06:05
I'm against any prejudice, bullying, name calling, game playing and nasty politics. However this isn't confined to the APA, disgusting as they are. |
| Kelfezond |
Posted - 14/06/2012 : 19:57:06
As somebody who hopes to breed on a bigger scale one day having the Doncaster show out of use means my potential market is cut by a lot. Not many people will travel to Portsmouth from up north for a snake but people from all over the uk come or rather came to Doncaster :-( |
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