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selarep
Snake Mite
Gibraltar
9 Posts |
 Posted - 02/02/2009 : 14:39:10
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Hi all,
I would appreciate if someone could help me or give me their views on the following matter.
I have a 1 1/2 yr old python, which has never given me any feeding problems. I normally feed him 1 live mouse once every 7-10 days, and I let him rest for roughly 2-3 days before handling him.
I constantly monitor the temps so these are maintained between 25-35°C(and more recently as we've had quite a storms going by this areas). He's got his basking area, hiding cave, two bowls of water, and some vines where he climbs about.
However, last week when I fed him the next day it regurgitated the mouse. I read through the internet to allow the snake to rest before feeding them again, so I waited til friday. However, when I placed the mouse in the enclosure the snake didnt move and made no attempt to catch it. He normally would have immediately curled up and approached to kill the prey. I left it there for the afternoon (supervising the mouse would not hurt my snake) but nothing.
Could someone please tell me if this is normal after regurgitating? Should I try again in a few days?
Many thanks! |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 15:09:33
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Allow 10 days after regurgitation for the snake to recuperate.
Also, 25-35C is quite a range, is this over the whole viv or at the hot end?
Regurgitation could have been caused by being too cold. |
 
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Gingerpony
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2663 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 15:15:51
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heya and welcome 
to put it in human terms, if you went to a restaurant, just for example you ate an omelette, and then you got food poisoning and were very very ill. can you imagine how you'd feel having to go back to the smae place and eat the same food?
it's a bit like that for a snake after regurgitating a feed. ideally they need about 10 days before offereing another feed to allow the digestive system to return to normal. how soon did you try feeding him again?
i wouldn't be overly worried about a regurge, unless it happened again. with only one hide perhaps he's not thermoregulating as he'd like to? which end is his hide in? |
Dumerils boas, BCO hybrids, Sinder Hypo boas, cornsnakes, ratsnakes, Day Geckos
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selarep
Snake Mite
Gibraltar
9 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 15:29:24
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Hi
What i mean about the temp range is in general. Say, during the day the coolest side will normally be around 28°C, whilst the top of the basking area can reach the 35°C (approx 32-32°C on the bottom). Then during the nights the temps decrease slightly to an average of 25-27°C throughout the enclosure.
The hiding cave is placed in the middle of the enclosure. Maybe I should place one at each side?
With regards to the time between feeds, I found he regurgitated and then I tried feeding him just 5 days after.
I will give him another week to rest before trying again.
Many thanks for your help.
I will try posting a picture on the forum 2nite so you can see my little boy (or atleast i think he's a boy!). |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 16:32:15
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A hide at either end would be best if possible.
Good luck. |
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dazb
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2847 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 18:30:39
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as BE said, you really need 2 hides.
one at the warm end, and one at the cool end so he can thermoregulate properly and digest his food while still feeling safe and secure.
i keep my temps 20-22*C at cool end and 31-32*C at the warm end which give a good thermal gradient.
how long have you had him???
28*c for the cool end, and 35*C for the warm end both seem a little high to me.
p.s. Hi and welcome... |
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Edited by - dazb on 02/02/2009 18:31:41 |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 18:54:40
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| I keep the cool end between 22-25C and the hot end 30-32C. |
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dazb
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2847 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 19:02:24
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| my cool end changes daily in this weather...roll on my ceramics, if i ever get the stack finsihed... |
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selarep
Snake Mite
Gibraltar
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 14:45:12
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Hiya!
Many thanks for your comments. I am working on the temps to lower them down slightly, as you've mentioned.
I also bought another hiding cave yesterday and i've placed one on each side of the enclosure, which i think he actually quites likes!
I have had him for just over 1 year (got him as a xmas present last year). See pic below:
Many thanks again  |
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dazb
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2847 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 15:00:49
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great looking royal...looks nice and healthy...
he should enjoy having a hide at either end.
can i ask why you choose to feed live and why only mice and not rats?
Dont worry not gonna start a big live feeding debate i am just curious how and why people do it... |
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Edited by - dazb on 03/02/2009 15:01:29 |
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selarep
Snake Mite
Gibraltar
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 15:26:49
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Thanks!!
Good question about feeding live or dead, as I’ve read so much about it that it sometimes confuses me!
Main reason is I myself would have to kill the prey before giving it to him, and I don’t think I would be able to. I don’t know if petshops in UK sell them frozen but not here in Gibraltar. We only get frozen pinkie mice.
When I got my boy last xmas they said he had always been fed live so he was used to it and would have no problems. I was abit hesitant at first, cos I didn’t want the mice to hurt the snake, so for the first few weeks I fed him frozen pinkie mice, but then I noticed that these were too small for him so I moved to feeding him live mice, which he has had no problems which until now.
As for mice or rats, unfortunately in Gibraltar we don’t have a a variety of mice, rat pups, rats, weanies and all those I’ve read in this forum. We get normal mice, then larger hamsters or gerbils. Anyway, wouldn’t a rat be slightly big for a 1 ½ yr python?
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Paulie B
Snake Mite
Ireland
24 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 15:34:24
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| Easy enough way to kill the mouse. Drop it into a paper bag and give the bag a good tap off the wall. That will do the trick. |
Snakes:
0.1.1 Carolina Corn's
0.1.0 Royal Python
0.1.0 Hogg Dwarf Boa
Tarantula's:
0.1.0 G.Rosea 0.1.0 B.Smithi 0.1.0 A.Seemanni 0.1.0 A.Avicularia 0.1.0 A.Versicolour 0.1.0 H.Vietnam sp 1.1.0 H.Lividium 0.2.0 P.Murinus 0.0.1 B.Vagans 0.0.1 L.Parahybana 1.0.0 S.Rubronitens 0.0.1 A.Bicoloratum 0.1.0 N.Chromatus 0.1.0 B.Klaasi 0.0.1 B.Albopilosa 0.1.0 C.Crawshayi 0.2.1 P.Scrofa 0.1.0 E.Pachypus 0.0.1 P.Regalis 0.1.0 T.Blondi 0.1.0 S.Javenisis 0.0.1 E.Campestratus 0.0.1 H.Gigas 1.0.0 I.Hirsutum 0.1.0 P.Cambridgei 0.0.1 C.Cyaneopubescens 0.1.0 H. Villosetta
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dazb
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2847 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 16:45:49
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that answers my question perfectly.
in the UK you can get any type of frozen food you want so its easy for us to say dont feed live. there is issues with harm to the snake but i thinks ok as long as you never leave them unsupervised.
i know i couldnt breed mice/rats and kill them myself. just be aware that mice will not be sufficient for a full grown royal and once on gerbils it may be difficult to get him off of them.
do you breed the mice yourself...? |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 17:33:30
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As above, how many mice will you feed it when fully grown, 5 or 6?
I would have no issues live feeding, in fact I would do it prior to force feeding if it came to that. |
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selarep
Snake Mite
Gibraltar
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 20:56:43
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I do not breed the mice myself but a local petshop supplies the mice for a few snake owners around here. I feed the snake in a separate, slightly smaller, enclosure, and I always sit beside to make sure the mouse doesnt bite/attach my boy.
Currently i feed him 1 normal sized mouse roughly every 7 days, or a max of 10 days. But I have noticed that maybe its not filling up my boy as much anymore cos now he is really active just a day after feeding. I did try feeding him a "mexican mouse" before xmas. Its was larger mouse, with courser hair (thinking about it now it could be a rat!). He took it really well. So I did speak with the petshop to see if they could bring in the same or others similar in size. See how that goes!
I have just weighed and measured Tequila:
Weight: 260g
Length: 65cm (approx as he´s very fidgety and keeps curling up)
Would you think this is ok? |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 21:04:21
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260g for an 18 month old?
A bit on the light side.
I have 3 '08s which weigh more than that, one of them from September (so only 4/5 months) has just gone past 400g. |
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selarep
Snake Mite
Gibraltar
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 21:27:12
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Oh gosh!
I think i´ve read so much about overfeeding pythons, and been so worried if the mouse were too large for him that I may have not fed him enough!
My guess is that I would need to feed him larger mice/rats to bring up his weight? I have read that no matter what they should never be fed more than every 5 days. I think i´ll make a visit to the petshop 2moro to check what mouse/rats they can bring that will suffice.
I wish I would have found this forum before.
Many thanks for all your help! |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 22:42:24
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Just remember that like humans, they will all grow at different weights, so don't panic.
I agree that no more often than every 5 days.
Try and find prey roughly equal to the girth of the snake. |
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 21:41:01
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I feed my royal pythons live and my western hognose pre-killed. I grow my own African Soft Fur rats which is bigger than a mouse but smaller than a regular lab rat and my royals are efficient constrictors with supervision so, I just drop a rat and it's coiled in a minute or so. If after 15 minutes the coiling hasn't happened, then the rat goes back to his family to live enjoy life for another week.
The Western Hognose though is not very good. It is an opportunistic feeder in the wild so it takes dead stuff while a royal doesn't do that in the wild. I cried the first time I fed him. It takes him a long time to catch the rat, and then he doesn't do the coil - he chews on the rat for a LOOOONNNNNGGGG time before his venom takes effect, so the rat would be half-way down his throat before it even stops struggling. It was awful for the rat, the snake, and me!
So, now I feed the hognose first - take a rat and put it in a quart-sized ziploc freezer bag and use those airspray keyboard cleaners to spray CO2 in the bag. This makes the rat sleep in under 30 seconds. If the hognose doesn't eat it, then I give it to the spider royal who is a pig - hasn't refused food yet.
Anyway, I don't see any ethical issues with live feeding a royal python like some do. It really is just a matter of what works best for your household after weighing the pros and cons of the thing.
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Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
1.0.0 normal western hognose |
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dazb
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2847 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 21:44:36
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| i think the main issue that people are concered about when live feeding is the harm live prey can do to your snake if it struggles/fights back... |
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 21:46:19
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| Ah geez. I forgot the main thing I was wanting to say... I have a 10-month old male royal who is just under 500grams. My 20-month old female one is almost 900grams. So, yeah, I think 260g is a bit on the light side. Although, some royals do grow a bit slower than others. Both royals have been feeding on rats since they hit 200 grams. |
Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
1.0.0 normal western hognose |
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