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Unamed
Yearling
United Kingdom
147 Posts |
 Posted - 28/07/2012 : 20:00:48
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Hi all,
The other day I posted about getting to know your snake. Well I could tell Heston was hungry.
I was a little cautious about feeding him tonight as he went into his new enclosure just today. But I could tell by his body langauge he wanted a meal.
So any ways ive defrosted/thawed out the fuzzy and done my usual routine of heating it up to about 31-32c on the corner of his heatmat outside his enclosure.
the whole time this fuzzys sitting on the matt this snakes going absolutely crazy. i can tell hes real fired up he knows whats coming.
as soon as i open the lid hes shooting up towards me (not striking but just approaching fast tongue flickering).
he does a little head twitch and shoots back a bit (hes still a bit head shy from above) and as soon as that mouse hit the deck hes on to it in a flash. he hit it like a steam train.
i only fed him on the 24th so im not sure why hes so hungry - not that im complaining!
any way, now im sure he knows my routine. im slightly concerned that one day in the not to distant future im going to have a 5ft python shooting out and latching onto me. is this likely to happen?
this kind of happened when i had my corn. i could see he knew when it was feeding time, even before i slid open the glass on his viv he was ready and waiting to strike.
i dont want to feed him outside the enclosure as he is still shy and i think this could set him back.
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0.0.1 Python Regius |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 28/07/2012 : 21:01:22
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Snakes dont feel hungry, they eat when food is offered and spent most of the rest of the time either digesting food or looking for it. They quite literally dont feel hunger, when there is no food they shut down their stomach to save energy, not like us who go around stomachs growling an hour after breakfast.
Learning that they will nearly always appear to be looking for food is important to avoid over feeding or spending all your time feeling sorry for a hungry snake. You really need to allow at least 5 days between meals and stick to a feeding routine rather than responding to behaviour.
If you heat up a prey item right by his enclosure he is going to know its there, he will smell it, and have a good idea where about it is in relation to him, he will be into full on hunting mode, focused on the instinctive hunt and kill and if something hot moves in front of his nose before his brain has even had time to decide what it was he will already have struck at it so yes it is likely that a snake that strikes will mistake you for food, its one of the risks you have to prepare for and your job to avoid putting yourself in the line of fire. |
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Unamed
Yearling
United Kingdom
147 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2012 : 07:26:29
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Appreciate what your saying but in my experience I notice certain behaviours when he is expecting food or "ready" for food. Such as passing his enclosure the night before and quite literally sitting in wait with his head poking out the hide.
This thread was more about him learning routine rather than me feeling sorry for him because he looks hungry.
I'm just amazed by how smart snakes actually are and don't get credit for it.
Thanks for the input. |
0.0.1 Python Regius |
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Dixon
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2012 : 10:26:33
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My little girl spends most of her time tucked up in her hide until late evening. However the other night she had her head sticking out of the hide from late afternoon and I figured she was waiting until dark to go on the hunt. She had refused her previous feed and was due to be fed the following day, a week after the missed feed, so I thought I defrost some food and she if she was ready to eat. I offered the thawed mouse and she struck straight away so she was obviously ready. I don't know if she was hungry or not but she was ready so I can understand what Unamed is saying about changes in behaviour.
I do not heat her food up in the same room as she is in because I don't want to get bitten by her getting over excited. I also would not have fed her until her requisite day if she had eaten previously, as long as you feed them in accordance with 10-15% body weight rule I don't see the need. |
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hodgie
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1197 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2012 : 17:46:54
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When i was a new owner i believed that i could understand my Royals. Sadly over the years and gaining many more im now in the position to say that i know they will always catch you out, When they are young and growing they will eat more aggressively.
However if it makes you feel good then you have the right to believe what you want, but just prepare yourself for a years time when it will probably all change.
And as Lotabob has already said, keep to a feeding schedule, its good to see them growing but its not healthy for Royals to be fat. |
Royals owned "lots"
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Edited by - hodgie on 29/07/2012 17:49:07 |
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Stewy-C-
Yearling
United Kingdom
103 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2012 : 18:13:20
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| Sadly I think Lotabob's post went over many peoples head. :( |
1.0 Spider Royal
0.1 Pastel Royal
0.1 Snow Corn
"The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
"On the internet you can be anything you want, its strange that so many people choose to be stupid" |
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Unamed
Yearling
United Kingdom
147 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2012 : 18:56:59
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I will stick to the schedule of every 4-5 days as this is normal for royals.
Also, are you telling me they do not learn their feeding routine? Much like fish who know its feeding time when an aqaurium light is switched on? |
0.0.1 Python Regius |
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Stewy-C-
Yearling
United Kingdom
103 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2012 : 19:06:21
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What routine doe's your snake have? I know mine have a rat stuck in front of them and then they take it. No routine.
I feed my corns in rubs, and they definaitly don't expect food when they are put in the tub. They expect food when they smell food.
Also, feeding every 4 days is abit excessive. I would stick to every 5 if I was you. |
1.0 Spider Royal
0.1 Pastel Royal
0.1 Snow Corn
"The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
"On the internet you can be anything you want, its strange that so many people choose to be stupid" |
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badwool
Sub Adult
658 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2012 : 20:15:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Unamed
I will stick to the schedule of every 4-5 days as this is normal for royals.
Also, are you telling me they do not learn their feeding routine? Much like fish who know its feeding time when an aqaurium light is switched on?
my goldfish would literally eat every time he saw you if you fed him. so unless his feeding routine is to eat every second of the day I'd say its no sign of intelligence.
My dwarf cuttlefish on the other hand - now they ARE/WERE intelligent, as with other ceph's |
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Unamed
Yearling
United Kingdom
147 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2012 : 20:47:30
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Please see above re feeding routine.
Also I'd like to believe my snake is intelligent, not sure about you.
Each to their own and all that |
0.0.1 Python Regius |
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Stewy-C-
Yearling
United Kingdom
103 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2012 : 20:52:50
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So his routine is smelling the mat on the heat mat? I think i'm missing something here? Not sure what you mean by routine?
Ofcourse he will be looking for food if he can smell it defrosting.
I think i'm lost. |
1.0 Spider Royal
0.1 Pastel Royal
0.1 Snow Corn
"The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
"On the internet you can be anything you want, its strange that so many people choose to be stupid" |
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hodgie
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1197 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2012 : 20:57:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Unamed
Also, are you telling me they do not learn their feeding routine?
Im not saying this to be arguementative but no i dont, we are dealing with reptiles here not cats and dogs. They dont need to eat everyday, they are slow moving ambush hunters. I believe its stated in Kevin McCurley`s book "the complete ball python" that they have the ability to go from being in a state of sleep to striking out at food in a split second. If you have a young Royal (under 2 years old) then it will have a stronger feeding response so will generally have a 100% feeding record. As it reaches maturity IT WILL all change. I have a 3 year old female Bumblebee who was a ravenous feeder until last October when she became, shall we say sexually active, she ate 1 rat in June and thats it, but when im feeding she`s out like all the rest but just sniffs and does nothing.
As i said before as a new owner i believed like you that i had some conection with them, that there was some sort of bond, we see it on here all the time, theres nothing wrong with that as they are our pets,(all of mine have names) but the day will come as it has for me when yours will look like its going to eat but will refuse and may do so for months on end. There really isn`t the bond between a snake and its owner as there is with a cat or dog. |
Royals owned "lots"
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Unamed
Yearling
United Kingdom
147 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2012 : 21:13:45
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Ok guys. Let's draw a line here.
Thanks |
0.0.1 Python Regius |
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Stewy-C-
Yearling
United Kingdom
103 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2012 : 21:33:01
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| I'm not trying to be funny with you or nasty. It's just that I don't understand what you mean by routine, and him understanding. |
1.0 Spider Royal
0.1 Pastel Royal
0.1 Snow Corn
"The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about"
"On the internet you can be anything you want, its strange that so many people choose to be stupid" |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2012 : 00:09:19
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There has been a few threads and articles as to the intelligence of snakes, it is commonly accepted that there is a level of intelligence in some snakes but mostly their intelligence is instinctive. To us lot they all have their own little personalities but this is limited to very few variations in behaviour. I see slightly more intelligence in my Royal than my corn snake for instance and my Boa appears more intelligent than my Royal but when I think about it I base this very scientific conclusion on nothing more than eye and head movement, if I actually think about it properly they are all pretty dopey, not one of them understands glass, 2 of them have managed to get their heads stuck in something, and one even thinks that hiding its head in its curled up body makes it somehow safe.
I have spent a great deal of time in actually understanding the biology of reptiles and snakes in particular, They fascinate me how they evolved so learning their anatomy was always going to happen.
It is not a massive stretch to say that a snake can learn its feeding routine, they do have a capacity to learn, the learning part of the brain is relatively small, (smaller than a bird) but it is there. But to show what level is learnt response and what level is environmental response (eyesight, vibration detection, infrared detection and a super sense of smell) would be very difficult to show, when something is so aware fo its surroundings excluding environmental indicators would be really difficult.
Today was feeding day and about ten minutes after the rats were put on top of the viv my Boa was hanging out of her hide, when I was feeding the corn snake that was in blue and only came out of his backwards facing hide when he smelled the mouse close by, the Boa responded to my presence and the smell and through a learnt response knew I was feeding and she came out. She did not however give me any indication she knew that it was feeding day before any of the indications were giving her the information required to come to a conclusion that food was on its way.
Their sense of smell is incredible, it was described to me once that if you cook a curry in the kitchen you smell curry in the living room, your snake can smell every single ingredient in your curry and the direction that the smell is coming from, if a rat is within the same airflow that the snake is in, it will know its there, I've heard of Burmese Pythons sensing their prey defrosting in a different part of the house, it doesn't take many scent molecules for the snake to detect it. |
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Edited by - Lotabob on 30/07/2012 00:13:27 |
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coxcats
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
584 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2012 : 19:30:41
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| I caught my royal reading the other day ;) |
Royals - Sas, Boris & Ria
Boas - 1 called Titch until we can think of a name for her!
Cats - Felix, Becky, Max & Willow |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2012 : 20:30:58
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| 50 Sheds of grey? |
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coxcats
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
584 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2012 : 20:45:15
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| of course! lol |
Royals - Sas, Boris & Ria
Boas - 1 called Titch until we can think of a name for her!
Cats - Felix, Becky, Max & Willow |
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coxcats
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
584 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2012 : 20:48:59
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| Then he played Snakes and ladders. |
Royals - Sas, Boris & Ria
Boas - 1 called Titch until we can think of a name for her!
Cats - Felix, Becky, Max & Willow |
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Unamed
Yearling
United Kingdom
147 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2012 : 21:21:55
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| some people have too much time on their hands |
0.0.1 Python Regius |
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coxcats
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
584 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2012 : 22:04:16
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| It was a joke. Seriously, my royal knows that when I tap on his hide I want him to come out. |
Royals - Sas, Boris & Ria
Boas - 1 called Titch until we can think of a name for her!
Cats - Felix, Becky, Max & Willow |
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he knows the feeding routine
