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Gladys
Snake Mite
9 Posts |
 Posted - 03/05/2009 : 17:51:55
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Hi, my son has a 3½ year old Royal Python which is about 3'0" long. He is in a 48" x 18" x 18" viv with a daytime temperature under the heat lamp of 88-90°, a night-time temperature of 80° and the humidity is around 60%. He has a hide roughly in the middle of the viv, two large branches, some artificial foliage in front on the hide and a large water bowl in the cool end.
During the year January to December 2007 he consumed 14 large mice and 1 weaner rat. During 2008 he had 6 large mice and 2 jumbo mice. Up to the middle of January he has only had 2 large mice (not that large, really). From the beginning of July 2008 to the end of December 2008, he didn’t eat anything – he then had a large mouse at the end of December…..so from July 2008 to now, he has only had 3 large mice. Since he got larger, we have tried to introduce weaner rats but he doesn’t seem to be interested…...we only ever managed to get him to eat 1. He hardly ever defecates.
He doesn’t seem to mind handling but we don’t handle him much as the general view seems to be ‘don’t handle them when they’re not eating’……..which is most of the time!
We keep trying him with both mice and rats about once a fortnight but he isn’t interested. He looks fine but we would welcome some suggestions/reassurance from other Royal Python owners.
Thanks
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2009 : 18:16:53
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Hi, welcome to the forum, I'm sure we can help you.
Have you got a photo of your setup?
Do you just have the one hide in the middle of the viv?
How are you heating the viv, how is it monitored and how controlled?
How much does he weigh, is he losing weight?
3' sounds quite small (maybe down to the lack of eating) and that is quite a large viv. |
 
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Gingerpony
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2663 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2009 : 22:12:32
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ok here's the points i would raise further to BE's:
1. a 48" x 18" x 18" viv is mahooosive for a royal that size
2. daytime temperature of 88-90° is fine but the night-time drop to 80° is a little steep.
3. humidity around 60% is a fraction high
4. one hide in the middle of the viv means he can't thermoregulate and feel safe/hidden. he needs at least 2 hides, one at either end of the viv.
a combination of all of the above means he's probably a little stressed out and this has resulted in him not eating well. because he's not eaten much there's not much to come out the other end either.
5. ‘don’t handle them when they’re not eating’ is definitely the best approach
some pics of the set-up would help us try and solve and environment issues the snake might have  |
Dumerils boas, BCO hybrids, Sinder Hypo boas, cornsnakes, ratsnakes, Day Geckos
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Edited by - Gingerpony on 03/05/2009 22:13:39 |
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Gladys
Snake Mite
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2009 : 23:59:17
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Hi, thanks for helping.
Unfortunately, I'm not very good at guesstimating....Mowgli is actually 3'10" long....not sure if a boy or a girl but usually say 'he'! He weighs in at 550 grams. We only have one hide in the middle, so I'll get another one. I'm guessing the one in the warm end should not be under the heat lamp.....possibly a bit nearer to it than where it is now? The source of heat is an incandescent heat lamp and it is monitored with a thermometer stuck on the back of the viv and also double checked with a stand-up one. It is controlled with a thermostat. He doesn't appear to be losing much weight but we'll monitor his weight now.....stupidly didn't think to weigh him before! We took the advice of the pet shop regarding the size of the viv, set-up, heating etc.
When we put him back in his viv after the weigh-in, he went and coiled up on his branch next to the lamp (as you can see from the pictures). We did get him out about three weeks ago and he did the same thing then but when we tried to feed him the following evening, he wasn't interested. We try to make sure that the food isn't too cold and we used to place it on kitchen roll, after dangling it in front of his hide but then we placed it on top of his hide. When he was small, we used to place the food in a cardboard box to try and eleminate and chance of him injesting substrate material and then we placed it in the cool end but he used to drag the food out, so we aborted that.
Here are the images you requested.....we were trying to be quick because the battery was running out, so they're not brilliant:
Mowgli.....the Star of the Show!
Warm End
Middle of Viv
Cool End
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
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Gladys
Snake Mite
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2009 : 17:57:19
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I have only just read your note but I had already been and bought another hide and some more mice, today. I will try and get a third hide for the middle of the viv, tomorrow.
Now one hide is under the heat lamp, shall we still take the temperature reading from where the thermometer is positioned now; which is directly behind the heat lamp, on the back wall of the viv, about ½” above the substrate (88-90°)? What temperature would you recommend dropping the night-time temperature to? Originally, the pet shop said it wouldn’t matter if we didn’t drop the temperature at night but that kept blowing the bulbs, so we decided to lower it.
We have ordered one of the thermometers from your link – where would you position the probe for this digital thermometer when it arrives?
We normally thaw the food out in the Living Room, in an open ended plastic bag and we have also tried putting it in a polythene bag (after thawing) and floating it in a cup of warm water, before placing it in the viv. We also tried someone’s suggestion of washing the mouse under warm water and drying it with a hairdryer as they said that mice defecate when killed and this smell sometime puts the snake off feeding. We have not brained one yet but we will give it a try the next few times to see if this has any effect.
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Gingerpony
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2663 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2009 : 18:00:02
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completely agree with BE again (we usually do agree!) 
as a quick fix you can put a clean cardboard box in as a second hide for the cold end and move the proper one to the hot end. the probe of the stat should be close to the warm hide. don't trust those dial thermometers or hygrometers, they're notoriously inaccurate!
generally a nice set up you've got there though Gladys
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Dumerils boas, BCO hybrids, Sinder Hypo boas, cornsnakes, ratsnakes, Day Geckos
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2009 : 18:12:27
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I would not was the mouse as this can remove the scent which attracts the snake, but I would recommend a hair-drier to heat or into a bag in very hot (not boiling) water.
Do you just place the mouse/rat in the viv as some will want to be fooled into thinking its alive so you may want to wiggle it around with some tongs.
As GP says though, your setup looks nice. |
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Gladys
Snake Mite
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2009 : 20:15:51
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| Thanks for the positive comments from you both regarding the setup. I've put his existing hide under the heat lamp and the new one in the cool end. I'll try and find a temporary box for the third hide, until I can go for another one. When he recovered from me lifting off his hide to resite it, he decided to go and coil up on his branches at the side of the lamp. He's still there now, so I think I may try to feed him later tonight.......if he's still up there getting a warm. When we put the mouse/rat in his viv, we usually rustle the substrate and wiggle the mouse/rat in front of the hide and then place it on top of the hide, as he seems to like to drag it up onto the branches to eat it. |
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wolfspirit
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
5741 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2009 : 21:44:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Gladys
Thanks for the positive comments from you both regarding the setup. I've put his existing hide under the heat lamp and the new one in the cool end. I'll try and find a temporary box for the third hide, until I can go for another one. When he recovered from me lifting off his hide to resite it, he decided to go and coil up on his branches at the side of the lamp. He's still there now, so I think I may try to feed him later tonight.......if he's still up there getting a warm. When we put the mouse/rat in his viv, we usually rustle the substrate and wiggle the mouse/rat in front of the hide and then place it on top of the hide, as he seems to like to drag it up onto the branches to eat it.
your viv looks great...
you wont go wrong with GP or BE's advise...try making a small slit from his head to his nose just enough that it bleeds before heating its head up......i know it sounds yucky, makes them smell even more yummy... |
"No one can go back and make a brand new start. Anyone can start from
now and make a brand new ending."
-- Source Unknown
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Gingerpony
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2663 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2009 : 21:54:14
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what time of day do you normally feed him? evenings or early mornings are best as it's when they're naturally active. some snakes need the prey item wiggling round for ages, others prefer it to be still and less intimidating, either way the head should be really hot.
regarding the temps overnight, you don't really need to drop the temps although some people prefer a drop of up to 2*C. is the bulb on all the time or do you switch it off overnight? it you switch it off it would be worth putting a heatmat in to keep him warm. |
Dumerils boas, BCO hybrids, Sinder Hypo boas, cornsnakes, ratsnakes, Day Geckos
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Gladys
Snake Mite
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2009 : 22:38:52
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It is yucky.......but if it means he will eat.....I'll have to do it!
We usually feed him late at night and we leave the bulb on all the time......just lower the temperature.
I'm off to sort it out now.........really looking forward to it.......NOT!!!
I'll report back tomorrow. |
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wolfspirit
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
5741 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2009 : 22:44:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Gladys
It is yucky.......but if it means he will eat.....I'll have to do it!
We usually feed him late at night and we leave the bulb on all the time......just lower the temperature.
I'm off to sort it out now.........really looking forward to it.......NOT!!!
I'll report back tomorrow.
good luck, fingers crossed for you..
you dont have to slit the head, i only do it cos the smell gets Peanut out and waiting...he is like a lion wiating to pounce by the time it is ready for him... |
"No one can go back and make a brand new start. Anyone can start from
now and make a brand new ending."
-- Source Unknown
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Gladys
Snake Mite
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2009 : 20:08:32
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| Hi.....no luck......he didn't feed. I warmed the mouse up and slit his head (yuk!), then wiggled it in front of him as he was coiled up in his branches. He didn't react, so I laid it on his hide in the cool end and it was still there this morning. On a positive note.......my son says he was quite active around l pm.....going up and down on the glass.....but he didn't take the mouse. His des res now has all three hides for him to choose from....let's hope they kick start him! |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2009 : 20:28:42
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You've just changed his viv around, so he'll probably want to get used to it again, try again in 5-7 days.
Fingers crossed. |
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Gladys
Snake Mite
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2009 : 21:19:21
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| Thanks, I'll do that and let you know........thanks again for helping. |
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Gladys
Snake Mite
9 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2009 : 16:31:40
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Hi......back again !
Before the update......just to let you know that Mowgli is, in fact, about 2yrs 8 mnths old........not 3½ yrs old, as I said at the very beginning of all this..........never did crack GCSE Maths  !! The digital thermometer arrived and it confirmed the temperatures we had been using were right........so that was good news.
We tried to feed Mowgli about 7 days after adding the two additional hides, as you suggested, but he/she refused to eat. We were ready to try again about a week later, when we discovered he had started shedding, unsuccessfully, in two of his hides. For some strange reason, he always tries to shed in the confines of his hide......must be a shy little dude  ! I also discovered that he'd previously deficated. The shed was a bad one.......we've only had one good one all the time we've had him.......I've taken note of the advice given to someone else......to get some moss, poor boiling water over it, cool, squeeze out and leave in the cool hide. I hadn't done that this time and rather than wait to get the moss, I bathed him and then sat with him on my lap for ages with a dry towel and wet flannel, to make sure all the shed was removed.........tail to eyeballs! He was extremely patient with me and eventually we succeeded !
We left him to get over the shed for a couple of days before trying to feed him and he was active during that same night, my son said, but he didn't eat.
I noticed him coiled up on the top of his braches in the early evening yesterday and even though it seemed a bit soon to try again, I decided to thaw out 2 mice - 1 white, 1 brown (usually seems to prefer white) - and my son put them in his viv in the early hours of the morning. Eureka!!! This morning the brown mouse had disappeared.......so I'm assuming he's eaten it .......don't want to disturb him to make absolutely sure! The mouse was supposed to be jumbo size but was only really a large mouse........he has only ever taken 1 weaner rat since we have had him, so I wanted to play safe with the mouse. I know it's only a little snack for him, really but at least he's taken some food......we'll see what happens next.
Thanks very much again for your help, support and advice so far.........hopefully, it looks as if adding the additional hides may have done the trick  ........fingers crossed. I'll keep you updated.
Thanks again
You'll probably have notice that I'm liking these Smilies....................a lot!!!
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dazb
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2847 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2009 : 16:41:54
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| congratulations... |
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wolfspirit
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
5741 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2009 : 17:42:51
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you know i was reading somewhere yesterday about mouse/rat colours
and this guy was saying that in the wild they would not get white mice/rats and that he had found success with feeding them on brown mice/rats....
yet saying that one of my royals was very hesitant at first to take a black one..
so maybe with some royals there is truth in this..
Anyway, well done and congrats on the feed... |
"No one can go back and make a brand new start. Anyone can start from
now and make a brand new ending."
-- Source Unknown
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Edited by - wolfspirit on 30/05/2009 17:43:59 |
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Gladys
Snake Mite
9 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2009 : 23:15:05
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| Thanks.......maybe there's something in that - this is the first brown mouse I've tried.......he definitely prefered white to black though, when he was eating.......so I dunno. Might try and get brown ones when I can. Just finished reading the epic MissCat 'My Poorly Royal'......gripping stuff.......brilliant it has a happy ending......hope Ra is still doing well! Loads of great stuff to get through in this forum.....what do they say......knowledge is power |
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Royal Python Not Feeding or Defecating
