| Author |
 Topic  |
|
BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
 Posted - 19/01/2011 : 10:15:23
|
Hi,
I'm new to this forum (just introduced myself in the intro section) and new to keeping Royals. Tig is my first after keeping a corn snake who died at eleven years old.
This may well turn into a long post, just so I can try to explain things right...
I bought Tig in July last year at four weeks old. He has never had any problems, he's always been a curious boy who loves to know what's going on and I swear he could eat for England! But last week I had to rush him to the vets... turns out he has an R.I. He was checked over and a mouth infection was ruled out. He was given an injection and the next day I was given Baytril for him for a week. This has now ran out and I'm wondering what to do next.
Tig was living in his faunarium to begin with, but as he started to sound a bit better I've now moved him into a bin crate (simmilar thing to a RUB with a mesh lid for ventalation) after reading this was an OK thing to do. He seems OK with this, although he's been going through his shed so hasn't properly explored it yet. His breathing has became better and much quieter too.
I've been keeping his humidity level lower than usual 'cause this also seems to be helping, and I've noticed that if I let it drop into the thirties then his breathing becomes better still. But I know that this is very low.
I have to admit that I don't have Tigs heat mat on a stat, but only 'cause I read that they should only be used for when the snake gets older??? But I realize now that I've probably got that wrong somehow... and I also have to admit that I droped and cracked his thermometer (a ye olde fashioned mercury one) and so I currently don't know the temprature in his new home. I have ordered a digital one though... so please don't shout at me : ( He always feels lovely and warm, like a living water bottle, so he's certainly not too cold, and I can't imagine he's too hot either.
I have also ordered his viv and the whole kit-and-kiboodle to go with it. That's a three foot VivExotic vivarium, a ceramic bulb, holder and guard, a pulse thermostat, his new Exo Terra digital thermometer, a new X-large bark hide, a large chunk of tree for him to climb, various Exo Terra plastic plants, some Exo Terra vines and some more of his orchid bark (I've now also read that this is no good either?) and spagnum moss. I think that's it... I might have forgotten something. I'm not saying he'll be moving into this strate away, but I just want it ready for him for when it's time, either now or later.
Before Tig got poorly (wheezy breathing, pink belly scales but clear nose and mouth, no gasping or foaming) he was eating fine, every time without fail, apart from when he was in shed. I haven't tryed him with a mouse 'cause he's been in shed, but I will do once I think he's settled into his new home and has shed. He does seem loads better, and is much more active when I get him out. But his breathing is still dodgy. His nose sounds a bit blocked, like if a person had a cold kinda noise, but it's clear. And he does, every now and then, still give a wheeze. But apart from that he seems much more his normal, curious 'healthy' self. My eventual question is what to do now. I realize that it's probably all my fault that's he's got this way in the first place, and believe me I've already shot myself down for that. I've been having sleeping problems (not good for someone with M.E.) and I have to admit I have been quite upset. I've read that R.I. are caused by poor living conditions and stress...
Of course I want to do what's best for my baby boy but I just feel like I'm in a six-and-two-threes situation. I've read that if it's not serious then you should just leave said snake alone and it'll sort it's self out... and I've read that if it's not treated he could die. His Baytril ran out on Monday and I've been leaving him alone on purpose to see how he does. He does seem to be improoving on his own, but it is slow. Obviously getting Baytril into him is stressful for him, and I obviously don't want to keep him under any stress. So should I risk more stress and get him another dose of Baytril or should I leave him alone now and see how things go? How long should I leave things before going back to the vets? And also, 'cause it's taking it's time to fix is there a possability that Tig could end up with permanent scaring on his lungs? ...Is there a chance I've scared him for life? That he might never get fully better again?
I realize that you may all want to shoot me down... but I have already done that for you. I can't describe how bad I'm feeling knowing that this is my fault, that I caused it. Somehow. But I just want the best for him, always have done. So if anyone can help me in what to do next, I'd very much apreciate it.
Thank you, and I hope that joining here will help me to keep on learning. |
Just me and my zoo. |
|
|
reptiledanny
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2106 Posts |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 10:46:05
|
Its nit all ur fault. A lot of people come on here and have never been told to use a stat or a thermometer before. Don't feel bad, u can make a fresh start on here.
Unfotunatly I don't know much about ri, so I cannot help u there.
Just to let u know, ur royal may decide it doesn't want to eat after what it has been through for a couple of weeks. This is just the royal getting used to things again, and will do him no harm at all.
|
1.2 royal pythons 0.1 hog island boa 1.0 corn snake
sig made by stapey |
 |
|
|
BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 11:01:05
|
Thank you for your reply : )
Oh, I understand that he might not want to eat for a while. I don't think I would want to either. I won't worry too much though as long as he still drinks lots, which he is doing. His skin has gone a bit loose though over the weeks : / Maybe it's just with him shedding? |
Just me and my zoo. |
|
|
|
Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 12:05:38
|
Hey BlueDragon take a deep breath no ones going to shoot you down here. You've got your thermostat and digi thermometer on the way so thats good. First thing is him going into shed is good as it really helps them. I would increase the humidity to at least 50 otherwise he will be slightly dehydrated and also possibly have a bad shed. Also if you suspect he still has an R.I raise the hot spot temp to 93- 95F and the ambient to 83- 85F. The warmer temps help the snake raise it's metabolism and fight the illness. It's also because of this slow metabalism that they have which causes illnesses such as R.I not to be noticed until they have reached a more visual point and why medication takes long to have a effect. The following link is an alternative treatment to R.I that i have used on one of mine when i noticed him wheezing 2 days after i purchased him. I followed this link and with the help of the poster my boy was healed in a week without the use of injections. The poster states seek vetanary advice if you feel more comfortable, just giving you something else to consider. Here's the link.
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/400758-alternative-r-i-treatment.html |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
 |
|
|
|
BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 20/01/2011 : 09:40:35
|
Thank you Royalbob, that's sounds great. I've actually used a very simmilar thing for my pet rats (I know, pet rats and a pet snake that will probably be eating rats as an adult... wierd) when they've been having problems with their breathing... but never thought of using the same thing for a snake.
I don't have his thermometer yet, but what I can do to raise the temp is to sitck his heat mat to the bottom of the crate, on the outside. At the minuet the mat is just sitting below the crate, but the crate has feet so there's a bit of an air gap between the mat and the crate... if that makes sense? So I'll stick it to the bottom of the crate with tape or whatever so there's no gap. That should raise it a fair bit. I do have a hydrometer for him though, so I can raise his humidity up and at least know where that's at.
I'll definatly try steaming him! X )
Thank you for that link. |
Just me and my zoo. |
|
|
|
Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 20/01/2011 : 10:04:18
|
| Ok bit dangerous to raise any levels without measuring them so I would leave as is until you get your stuff. Pets at hm or any rep shop will sell it all though. Its important to know what the readings are right now. When you take him out of the steam be prepared for him to sound worse as the phlem will be loose. Is he still in shed? Also u can use the plastic part if a cotton bud to open the mouth and clear any mucas out with the cotton part. You'll need help. Be carefull not to get the cotton caught in his teeth. Good luck. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
|
|
|
|
BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 22/01/2011 : 10:29:10
|
Thank you again.
I haven't tried the steaming thing yet 'cause I haven't managed to get hold of a crate that's big enough to fit his faunarium in. I'll be taken to Focus maybe today though to see what they've got, but I can't go in on my own 'cause I panic, so it's a matter of waiting till my step-dad can take me (he owns his own shop so is busy a lot of the time).
I haven't did his heat mat either, 'cause I was waiting till he was being treated so I could do it without more upset to him. I'll be getting his thermometer on Monday 'cause that's usually when the orders are delivered in my petshop, so it'll come then (they'd ran out so I had to order one). Hopfully his viv and everything else will have been delivered too.
I read that and it makes me sound so useless... but the way I am kinda controls where I can go and when. Not an excuse, of course, more an explination.
That tip about the cotton bud sounds good too. My mam helped me with getting his Baytril into him, so she wouldn't mind helping with that either I don't think.
Oh, and yes he's still shedding. Unfortunatly he's always been a crappy shedder and I've never been able to get it better for him. I always tend to up his humidity level when he goes into blue and keep it up till he's shed, but this never seems to help. That plus the fact that he hates water and flat out refuses to use a water bowl to soak in and shoves out any damp moss he has in his hide makes things a bit hard to fix. That was the next problem I was hoping to solve, 'cause at the minuet I usualy have to help him along by stroking him with wet fingers. But he's not keen on this either and tries to shove me away. I never try to pull the skin off, I only damp it and stroke it till it comes off on it's own. He's been going through the actual shedding process now for two days, this is the third but there's only a tiny bit left on his side that I'll help get off for him.
...Not doing very well, am I?
|
Just me and my zoo. |
|
|
|
BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 22/01/2011 : 10:37:08
|
Just seen the 'promoting a healthy shed' video and thought I'd point out that I was also spritzing Tig for a while, he certainly didn't like it and I stopped 'cause it didn't seem to make any different to his bad shedding. Maybe I wasn't doing it enough?
Haven't tryed the pillow case trick though... |
Just me and my zoo. |
|
|
|
Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 22/01/2011 : 14:05:42
|
| Best thing is to get all your gauges first then you'll know where your at. You don't steam him in his faun. You need 2 containers all pound shops will do them. The first just big enough for him which u punch lots of holes in and the 2nd one large enough for this and the container with the vicks mixture. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
|
|
|
|
BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2011 : 08:54:20
|
Oh, yeah, I know that. What I wanted to do was to stick him in his faunarium, nowt in it, and then to put that into a bigger container, like a box crate and have the jug in that on the opposite side to where he is at. It's just that I can't find one big enough to fit the faunarium in. But What I've decided to do now is buy a smaller faunarium instead. I'm going up the pet shop tomorrow morning and they sell loads of reptile stuff now, just got it all in before Christmas. And they do the smaller faunariums too. So I'll get one of those, figured it'll solve that problem at least.
He shed, finally. Looking his usual shinny bright self now. |
Just me and my zoo. |
|
|
|
Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2011 : 15:19:03
|
| just buy a cheap tub mate. how was his shed? |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
|
|
|
|
BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2011 : 09:28:19
|
Yeah, I might do that. Our Boyes sell any amount of Tupperware boxes, might just get one of those and jam a load of holes in it.
His shed was loads better than it has been in the past. When he was a tiny baby I pretty much had to help him get the whole thing off for him... it just wouldn't shift when he was trying himself. But these days it's much better. The only real problem areas are his sides just past his head. His eyes were the worst of all to clear of skin, they were a real nightmare, but again these days they shed fine. He hasn't had any problems with that for a few sheds now. I'm wondering if as a baby he, for whatever reason, wasn't producing the oil under the skin, but now that he's older maybe he's able to produce some. Enough for him to almost compleatly shed on his own now anyway, even if it is still in bits. I'm hoping as that he grows he'll be able to fix his shedding on his own, but if not I might invest in some of that Shed-ease for him.
Thanks for all your ongowing help and advice. It's nice to know I have help here and some back up. |
Just me and my zoo. |
|
|
|
Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2011 : 14:22:10
|
| Glad his shed went better. Do you still think he is suffering from his R.I? Try offering some food as this also can do wonders for his overall strength and immunity. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
|
|
|
|
BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2011 : 09:29:43
|
I offered him a mouse last night and he striked at it so quick that if you blinked you've miss it... so back to his normal eating self! X )He actually had another mouse after that too 'cause he's still on mediums 'cause I didn't want to offer him a large and put him off. So he gets two of the mediums twice a week.
See, I know when he's hungry 'cause he always rests his head on the top of his hide and waits patently : ) He hasn't been doing that ever since we had to get his Baytril down him, but started again about two days ago, and Monday is one of his normal feeding days so that's why I tried a mouse then. If he askes for another mouse between feeds I'll offer him one 'cause he hasn't fed for over two weeks now.
Yeah, he's still a bit wheezy and he's still 'caughing' sometimes. I'm checking him over every day and there's still no sign of any discharge from his nose or mouth. So I know it can't be that bad. And it still does seem to be getting better... very slowly though. I must be doing something right? Yesterday I bought a tupperware box and last night a melted a good few holes in the lid with a hot knitting needle. Didn't put holes in the base 'cause I thought it might be too much for him. Don't want him cholking on the viks or anything like that. So once I've dug out another crate I'll try this steaming treatment and see where that leads. See if I can finish this R.I. off all together.
I brought his thermometer home yesterday too. I instaled it and then didn't know what to do. Firstly, I'm dyslexic too, so numbers and messurments aren't understood by me at all. So I had the thermometer switched to a little 'C' at the back. It read 21. Not good. So I switched it to the little 'F' and it read 75, middle temprature (this morning it reads 77 middle temprature, 79 hot end and 66 cold end (there's a dot and then another number but I can't remember those)). So still not good of course but I'm really hoping that the 'F' is the one I'm supposed to be paying attention to???
My mam, who has kept snakes on and off since childhood but who had never kept a Royal Python, has sugested that I use my spare heat mat to make the heat double. So I would have one on the bottom of the outside of the crate and then the other stuck to the side. She says that should fix it for now but has pointed out the obvious, that this crate home just isn't working. So the sooner he's in his viv the better. I agreed with that so will be poking the pet shop about it later in the week 'cause they hadn't managed to get hold of all the stuff yesterday.
So once his mouses have had chance to go down I'm going to do that. Is it a good idea? 'Cause I don't know what else to do really. If it got too hot then I would just slide the crate off the mat at the bottom till the temptature read right. So I can always adjust it if nessacary. |
Just me and my zoo. |
|
|
|
mischang
Yearling
United Kingdom
482 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2011 : 10:20:23
|
| one of mine had an R.I when i got her and she was like tig geting better slowly after 3 days off the jabs she was still not right so i took her back and she endedup going on 3 courses till it was completly gone , he Tig be better while on them then you must continue with the meds till they are finished . as above you have learnt alot my simple mistakes but you ARE correcting them dont beat your self up you didnt do it on prupose. i found that when she was due a shed i popped her into a pillow case every day for 2 hrs but kept her viv low on humity as the vet told me dont worry about the shed been bad get her breathing right first as that could be fatal where as the shed is uncomftable for them and unsightly but can be helped very easy. hope that makes sense and best of look |
 |
|
|
|
Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2011 : 23:51:36
|
Hi Bluedraggon. Good news that he is eating it means he is getting better and the food will help him keep his strength up. He will be fine feeding him once a week. If you need to give him more just offer a larger mouse. This will give his stomach time to digest. Feeding twice a week is too often for a royal python. has he finished his medication from the vets?
Snakes take quite long to get better. Also if the temps are not hot enough the antibiotics will not work. You will need a lot of holes in the small tub, don't worry he won't choke. Just follow the instructions. If you keep the thermometer on the F you want it to read 90 at the hot end and 80 at the cool end. If you pet shop doesn't have all the stuff you can get it all online and will probably be cheaper as well. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
|
|
|
|
BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 26/01/2011 : 13:21:31
|
Thanks both for your comments.
I'll try him on his bigger mouse next feed if you think that he'll be better off on them now, just didn't want to put him off feeding before he'd even started again. I didn't know twice a week was a bad idea, so I'll stop that as well.
Yeah, his meds were only a weeks supply, but after you (Royalbob) sent me that link I noticed that people were saying that to many meds can make things worse by causeing more stress. So I thought it best to try this steaming treatment for a little while before taking him back to the vet. He refused to feed while he was on his Baytril. It's the only time he has done. So I know he wasn't happy.
I've now got him on two heat mats... and there's not an ounce of difference in the temptarture. I'm glad it is the 'F' that I'm supposed to be paying attention to though! But I can't get the temprature any higher than 79 middle temprature. The hot end still reads 78/79 and the cold end is still 66. So I'm stuck. My step-dad is going into the petshop today to ask about his viv set-up gear and explain the urgency of it. If they don't have the stuff in then my mam has said she'll go to another petshop today (probably P&H 'cause they do all the stuff) and buy everything I need there instead. So one way or another he will soon be in his viv with all the proper gear and then maybe I can relax a bit. I know the petshop have my viv ready, but they just seem to be having bother with the other things. And someone there was even going to build the viv for me... but that's no good if he doesn't have everything else.
Note to self: use the same website my mam does next time.
I'm pretty convinced that I know what's caused his R.I. When I put him in the carrier to take him over the road to my mams house so she could help get his Baytril into him I noticed that he seemed to enjoy the extra hight he had in the carrier. Where as when I put him back home he seemed to just hide all the time. Now that he's in the crate he seems to be loving the extra space and hight, and he's loving the vines I bought him. I think he was upset 'cause he didn't have enough space, especialy hight, anymore. And now that he's in his crate his breathing is getting better, very slowly, but it is. In his faunarium the temprature and humidity were fine and that's why it was such a shock that he got poorly. Could a lack of hight be the cause? He loves to climb and explore... maybe he was getting bored?
I'm just going to put him strate into the whole three foot viv 'cause I'm sure he won't mind that. It'll be (as soon as I can get it all together) full of plastic plants, branches and vines so won't be such an open space. But I think he'll apreciate it. |
Just me and my zoo. |
|
|
|
BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 26/01/2011 : 13:23:28
|
| Oh, and congrats on becoming a mod too Royalbob! : ) |
Just me and my zoo. |
|
|
|
Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 26/01/2011 : 21:51:39
|
| Wouldn't say the lack of height caused the R.I. Hope you managed to get all your stuff today mate. Keep us posted. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
|
|
|
|
BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2011 : 09:47:50
|
Right, well this thing about getting his viv from the petshop has turned into a right royal cockup. Apparently they didn't realize that I needed it ordering now... despite me giving them the list and asking when it would be here, and then asking every time I was in too. Not to mention that I explained to them about Tig and said he needs to go in his viv as soon as possable ...Don't ask, I don't have a clue : /
So anyway, P&H were no good either. The just of it is that they sell next to nothing and the stuff they do sell is not what I'm after.
So in the end I've had to order things off the internet. Not the end of the world but it just means that it won't be coming for a few days. But I have managed to get hold of everything off one site, after lots of looking around, so that's a bonus anyway. Spent way more than I planned too... But, that's what money is for X )
Tig himself is loads better. It's not so much wheezing now as just short, quiet little whines. And it's only really when he's out in his crate or when I've got him out. So I'm confident enough to say that he no longer has his R.I. and that whatever is left is just the last reminants of it. I'm still going to continue steaming him though till it's all compleatly gone.
Along with his viv and set-up stuff I also bought some 'Aquatize'. I read that it has oils in it that could aid shedding, so I thought I would give it a go. At the minuet he's having bottled water that's been sitting for at least 24 hours with the top off, and then the top is left off. But maybe this stuff will make the water even cleaner.
I also got bought for me a presurized spray bottle yesterday. So I'm hoping I'll be able to manage his humidity better with that. And plus, it's not so much hard work spraying it!
When I've got everything set up I'll post photos in the photo section. I've never set up a viv like this before, with ceramic bulbs 'n' stuff, so it's new to me. But I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing : ) |
Just me and my zoo. |
|
|
|
reptiledanny
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2106 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2011 : 09:54:08
|
Sorry about your run in with pet shops, a lot of them will take ages to order things in for you
Good to here you ordered all the stuff ui needed and more from one sight, means you only have to pay for one postage. But ye, I think we all spend to much sometimes on the setups lol, but that's what we do, we spoil are babies lol
Good to here that ri is settling down and you its nearly gone, before you now is hell be back to normal again and as happy as larry, all fit and healthy.
Look forward to seeing pics of the setup |
1.2 royal pythons 0.1 hog island boa 1.0 corn snake
sig made by stapey |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
What to do for Tig...
