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BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
 Posted - 28/01/2011 : 10:51:39
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I'm really new to learning all the different morphs you can get with Royals. There's some really quite stunning ones. But I don't know if I'm just being thick (I'm a lass, and yes, I am blonde, so make of that what you will) but I can't see why Bummble Bee and Killer Bee Royals are so called : / Is it the Spider-like stripes they have? The colour? And why would you call such a cute lookin' snake a 'Killer' Bee? That's seems a bit mean X ) Especialy with all the bad press snakes can get!
Sorry for my cluelessness : / |
Just me and my zoo. |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2011 : 11:54:14
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Nah, basically the first person to produce one (usually American!) can name it. For some reason a snake with two Pastel genes seems to be a 'Killer', like Killerbee and Killerblast, not sure why, but sure its not an insult  |
 
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sullysteve
Hatchling
United Kingdom
90 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2011 : 14:58:26
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quote:
Originally posted by BlueDragon
I'm really new to learning all the different morphs you can get with Royals. There's some really quite stunning ones. But I don't know if I'm just being thick (I'm a lass, and yes, I am blonde, so make of that what you will) but I can't see why Bummble Bee and Killer Bee Royals are so called : / Is it the Spider-like stripes they have? The colour? And why would you call such a cute lookin' snake a 'Killer' Bee? That's seems a bit mean X ) Especialy with all the bad press snakes can get!
Sorry for my cluelessness : /
I dont think Andy Gray is a member of this forum, so dont worry, we wont label you! |
0.1 BCI Nicaraguan CB10
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa - Heidi
1.0 Coastal Carpet python (CB08)
0.1 Irian jaya x coastal Carpet python CB10
2.3 Ball Pythons (Pinstripe + Pastel + Bumblebee + 2 Normal)
Location : Warrington, Cheshire |
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sullysteve
Hatchling
United Kingdom
90 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2011 : 15:00:53
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Bumblebee
Sorry, i just had too |
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reptiledanny
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2106 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 08:26:45
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It's just what breeders think they look like. I'm sure e bumblebee was chosen because it looks like a bee with yellow and black stripes. Any morph ghat has spider in it is classed as a bee, so if you bred a lesser to a spider you would get lesser bees
The killer like BE seed is if you put 2 pastel genes together with another gene, like a super pastel spider is the killer bee |
1.2 royal pythons 0.1 hog island boa 1.0 corn snake
sig made by stapey |
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BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 09:22:59
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Thanks peoples : )
sullysteve, I saw those photos when you put the post up : ) Very nice. You don't have to apologize for posting one again, I'd want to show them off too!
So two pastel genes make a Killer, and a Super Pastel Spider is the same as a Killer Bee? Is that right? I can see the Pastel and the Spider in the Bees, wasn't sure if they were the same thing or different though.
So is a Pastel Spider a Bumblebee then? |
Just me and my zoo. |
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BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 09:26:49
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Oh, and if you wanted to make a Pastel how would you do that? Is a Pastel made by breeding an Albino with a Normal??? That's just a guess!
It's OK, I'm not planning on breeding, I'm just a curious kinda person ; ) |
Just me and my zoo. |
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python23
Yearling
United Kingdom
108 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 12:49:26
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| No an albino is a completely different morph all together, thats a recessive gene. pastel is a base morph in its self which means it was first found in the wild, its a co dominant gene, so you cant produce one from another morph, only normal x pastel or a pastel x pastel which would also give you the chance of producing super pastels. I hope this helps :) |
02 Corn (female)
03 Amel corn (male)
03 Amel corn (female)
03 Royal reduced pattern (male)
05 Royal normal (male)
09 Het Pied (male)
10 Royal normal (female)
10 Het Pied (Female)
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 13:08:52
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Yep 2 pastel genes in a snake make it a super. when there is a 3rd gene along with the 2 pastel genes the prefix is often called Killer.
Yeh a super pastel spider -pastel x pastel x spider = killer bee.
Yeh a pastel spider is a bumblebee.
Pastel's are just something that nature threw up. They were first found in a shipment in 1994. To produce more pastels you first need a pastel or a snake carrying the pastel gene such as a bumblebee. A pastel bred to a normal should give you half of the clutch as normals and half as pastels. Breeding 2 pastels together gives you a 25% chance per egg of creating a super pastel. These are great because even if you put them tom a normal you will hatch out all pastels and no normals.
By breeding an albino to a normal you will get all normals carrying an albino gene but not showing it. These are what we call hets.
Take a look here
http://www.ballpython.ca/collection.html |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 13:10:41
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| sorry python23 for overlapping. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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python23
Yearling
United Kingdom
108 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 14:32:50
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| well said royal bob, the more advice for the young lady the better, its hard at first to get your head around the genetics of it all. Once i understood what het, co dom, and dominant genes did etc i kind of got it, takes a lot of reading though |
02 Corn (female)
03 Amel corn (male)
03 Amel corn (female)
03 Royal reduced pattern (male)
05 Royal normal (male)
09 Het Pied (male)
10 Royal normal (female)
10 Het Pied (Female)
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reptiledanny
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2106 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 14:44:33
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| Damn, I replied to this about two hours ago and for some reason its not replied???? Was a nice long post as well, oh well, bobs is just as good if not better |
1.2 royal pythons 0.1 hog island boa 1.0 corn snake
sig made by stapey |
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BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2011 : 12:09:04
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Thanks for all the replies! I do kinda get it now : ) Well, at least as far as these morphs go anyways X )
Really? Pastel Royals were a wild made morph??? But they look so un-natural. Well, there's my lesson learnt for today, 'cause I never knew that! So how come their, what would be tan, patches on their sides are... erm, overmarked? What's that all about then? Is it just a fault? And they're 'filled in' too. Or is that all a later captive bred addition that then went on to produce the Spider morph?
Am I overcomplicating things now? |
Just me and my zoo. |
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BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2011 : 12:21:31
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Then again, looking through that link... there's so many!
Maybe I shouldn't be getting into all this : /
X ) |
Just me and my zoo. |
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2011 : 15:29:25
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quote:
Originally posted by python23
well said royal bob, the more advice for the young lady the better, its hard at first to get your head around the genetics of it all. Once i understood what het, co dom, and dominant genes did etc i kind of got it, takes a lot of reading though
Cheers, yeh tell me about it. I'm kinda just into the whole genetic thing so makes for easier reading. My mates some kind of genetic punnet square wizard it just comes naturally to him it's sickening lol.
Done that before Danny, Proper annoying.  |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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python23
Yearling
United Kingdom
108 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2011 : 16:58:19
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quote:
Originally posted by BlueDragon
Thanks for all the replies! I do kinda get it now : ) Well, at least as far as these morphs go anyways X )
Really? Pastel Royals were a wild made morph??? But they look so un-natural. Well, there's my lesson learnt for today, 'cause I never knew that! So how come their, what would be tan, patches on their sides are... erm, overmarked? What's that all about then? Is it just a fault? And they're 'filled in' too. Or is that all a later captive bred addition that then went on to produce the Spider morph?
Am I overcomplicating things now?
The morphs that are known as base morphs were all originally found in the wild, even spiders were found in the wild, for what reason im not sure anyone knows. People took these unusual looking royals into captivity and started breeding them. Some of the morphs turned out to be recessive which means that both parents need to carry the gene in order for the offspring to carry the visual trait of that particular morph.
Others were proven to be co dominant meaning only one parent needs to carry the gene to pass on a visual trait. examples of these are pastels, spiders,pinstripes etc. Then as time went on people started breeding these morphs with each other to make more complex morphs such as bumblebees,lemon blasts (which is a pastel x pinstripe) etc. Nowadays some of the royals being produced are a combination of 5-6 genes hence the reason for their crazy looks. A lot to take in isnt it !!
Have a look at this video and be amazed, this guy is kevin Mcurley, probably the most famous Royal python breeder in the world. Some of the snakes he's breeding are ridiculous
http://www.youtube.com/user/raphymartinez#p/u/13/Jq4hOaROpwg |
02 Corn (female)
03 Amel corn (male)
03 Amel corn (female)
03 Royal reduced pattern (male)
05 Royal normal (male)
09 Het Pied (male)
10 Royal normal (female)
10 Het Pied (Female)
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Edited by - python23 on 30/01/2011 17:07:09 |
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2011 : 17:04:55
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quote:
Originally posted by BlueDragon
Thanks for all the replies! I do kinda get it now : ) Well, at least as far as these morphs go anyways X )
Really? Pastel Royals were a wild made morph??? But they look so un-natural. Well, there's my lesson learnt for today, 'cause I never knew that! So how come their, what would be tan, patches on their sides are... erm, overmarked? What's that all about then? Is it just a fault? And they're 'filled in' too. Or is that all a later captive bred addition that then went on to produce the Spider morph?
Am I overcomplicating things now?
Nah. let me try and explain. With morphs you have two types base morphs and designer morphs.
Base morphs
These are morphs that are found in the wild alongside normal looking ball pythons. A few base morphs are pastels as we've said also albino's, spiders, pinstripes the list goes on. They are then sold on to importers who breed them to see what type of gene they are. Dominant such as a pinstripe. Co dominant such as a pastel or recessive such as albino's.
Designer morphs
These are morphs that are designed from 2 different base morphs. These would not occur in the wild naturally. Examples of these would be pastel x spider = 25% chance of making a bumblebee. Pastel x pinstripe = 25% chance of making a lemonblast
Thats it on a basic level. Hope it makes sense
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1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2011 : 17:05:59
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lol can't believe i just done it again. Are we synced up or something lol.
Spiders and pins are dominant genes though. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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Edited by - Royalbob on 30/01/2011 17:09:51 |
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python23
Yearling
United Kingdom
108 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2011 : 17:15:06
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| haha yea, you always seem to word it slightly better than me though, heres a question i seem to struggle on, whats the difference between dominant and co dominant? |
02 Corn (female)
03 Amel corn (male)
03 Amel corn (female)
03 Royal reduced pattern (male)
05 Royal normal (male)
09 Het Pied (male)
10 Royal normal (female)
10 Het Pied (Female)
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Edited by - python23 on 30/01/2011 17:17:37 |
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2011 : 17:42:07
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Co Dominant
ok if you look at genes as being a pair in co dominant royals if only 1 side of the gene pair carries the gene the royal will still be a visual morph. This is because the co dominant gene is dominant over the normal gene. A visual het in other words such as pastels, lessers, fire's etc.
If both sides of the gene pair are the co dom gene then we get what we call the Superform. For pastels this is the super pastel, super lesser is the blu eyed luecistic and the super fire is the black eyed luecistic. breeding one of these super forms back to a normal will give all visual hets i.e all fires or all pastels.
Dominant
these genes work the same as co doms it's just that there is no visual super form if both of the gene pairs are dominant. So breeding a pinstripe to a pinstripe will produce 25% normals, 50% pins and 25% super pins. these super pins though will look no different to the other pins in the clutch. However lets just say we knew which one the super pin was if we bred it to a normal we would produce all pins where as the normal pins would only produce half the clutch of pins and half or normal looking royals.
That make sense?
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1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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python23
Yearling
United Kingdom
108 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2011 : 17:59:30
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| yes im 95% with you, i didnt know that breeding pinstripes together for example would produce supers that looked the same, thats new to me, i have heard no one has produced a super spider yet. Its a strange gene that one |
02 Corn (female)
03 Amel corn (male)
03 Amel corn (female)
03 Royal reduced pattern (male)
05 Royal normal (male)
09 Het Pied (male)
10 Royal normal (female)
10 Het Pied (Female)
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Topic |
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Question about morphs...
