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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
 Posted - 08/02/2011 : 09:20:23
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Well here it is the controversial follow up of the Not For The Squeemish video. 6 months on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf5igKLht6E |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 10:49:25
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It explains a lot more - thanks for that, Bob, and makes me feel a bit more kindly towards this guy. However, I still think he could have invested in surgical gloves for a start, with the setup he's got.
Nice to see that little girl looking so well, and that she's in good working order. (I watched that first video without a qualm - and then fell apart - that's not me, usually!) So very glad to see her all healed up.
Not so glad to hear he plans to breed from her. That condition could very well be hereditary. The fissure in the belly was too well-formed to have been caused by damage when hatching imo.
Still, overall, heartwarming stuff. |
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Edited by - n/a on 08/02/2011 10:50:38 |
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BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 11:12:19
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I agree, it does seem that he does genuinly care about 'Stiches', and he did let her live. I can imagine a lot of people wouldn't bother trying. But, yeah, I know nothing to do with breeding snakes but I wouldn't have bred from her either, just to be safe.
She's healed really well though. You can hardly see her scar : )
He says about her belly pattern meaning that she might produce Pied Royals, is this why he want's to breed her? Are they a big thing for a breeder to produce?
...Tig has that kind of pattern too, on his belly.
I just hope that that's not the only reason he wanted her to live though... |
Just me and my zoo. |
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 13:11:02
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Yeh was really great to see how she has come on. I couldn't believe it. I guess this just shows the healing powers of these snakes because lets face it those stitches were crude.
Like i said before though i'm not a vet so maybe that's the best way to stitch them, she certainly healed up a treat. In all honesty If i had just seen the 2nd video and then seen a pic of the opening before the stitches i would of been like i want this guy. Just goes to show. It's not hereditary, apparently it can happen when incubation temps are too high. As far as breeding i think that once she is in perfect working order there's not really any harm, in theory she's healed. I don't know the guy but genuinely think he cares about all his snakes. He could have quite easily have put the snake down without any loss at all to his business. A het pied is by no means an expensive or rare snake they cost about the same as a pastel. To produce a het pied you just breed a visual pied 
to a normal ball python and all the offspring will be 100% het pieds. 
A breeder of this size would not be short of pied's normals or het's so feel that he knew how to save the snake and did although it what seemed a very course way. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 13:49:07
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Ah, I didn't know that about hernias in snakes - I know hernias in mammals can be hereditary. Even so I'd still be a bit wary of breeding, with the chance of adhesions/calluses at the site of the scar. But best of luck to 'Stitches' - as you say, her fate could have been much worse.
While we're on the subject of 'het pieds', what are these 'markers' near the tail that denote a het? I saw a quick glimpse of them in the video. Are they absolutely reliable or just a rough guide? |
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 16:00:32
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Hiya bats. No there not definitely reliable just something a purchaser may want to go by when choosing from a clutch of say 66% het pied's.
This would be from 100% het pied X 100% het pied = 25% normals, 50% normal het pied and 25% piedbald so with 75% of the clutch looking normal but with a 1/3 of these normals being het pied's this is where we get the 66% possible het's. So when looking at poss het's to prove out you would look for any markers or indicators. That make sense? Think i just confused myself lol.
here's a couple links. ones text the others a vid.
http://www.nextworldexotics.com/hghpm.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uqE40-Mxv0 |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 16:27:08
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Ha - that's fascinating!
I had a reason for asking that question, because, you know about Surahi, my dinker, who is a sepia/chocolate/cream normal. When I bought her I was told by her then owners that the guy who they bought her off claimed that she might possibly be het for pied. No papers, however, and they charged me the usual rate for an adult normal - £10 per 100g.
Well, I've just got her out and looked, and, yes, she does have the markers for het pied - but, as the video pointed out, a normal royal can have these markers too.
I'm inclined to think that the guy saw the markers on Surahi and indulged in a bit of wishful thinking, and it's highly unlikely I'm going to be buying a pied husband for her - what would Shahi say???
So, just a bit of fun here - but interesting all the same.
(Surahi's grinning too - she's now up in her favourite place, coiled round my neck like a dinker scarf ...) |
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 18:11:18
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| You just never know bats. There's no reason for him to lie as he's selling at normal price. So so many snakes get classed and sold as normals when they are hets for something. There is just no way of proving unless they are 100% hets. So if the breeder is not going to keep them all back they often just get sold as normals. Or 66% poss het which only cost a few quid more than normals. By the time they have gone through a few owners they will definately be just classed as normals. If your ever going to breed from her there's no harm in getting a 100% het about £150 and trying your luck. 1 in 4 chance of a pied. If that's your thing. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 18:19:04
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LOL - I do love pieds - but don't know about buying another male - Shahi is the boss! Also it's a question of finding a market for the offspring - I plan to breed Shahi to Surahi but unless I'm sure of the kids finding really good homes, they stay here ...
I reckon it's one of those fun ideas to play around with ... |
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reptiledanny
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2106 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 18:22:07
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ye, like bob has explained, my het pied pair will ahve 50% of the offspring being het pied, so all the normals become 66% het pied. i will seel all these at normal prices, as alot of people just want a snake, but some want the gene, but it might not prove out.
the only problem you get is when u breed het x het, and get no visual snakes, this may mean you have missed out on teh 25% chance, or one of your hets isn't a het, thats when it becomes complicated lol |
1.2 royal pythons 0.1 hog island boa 1.0 corn snake
sig made by stapey |
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2011 : 18:55:45
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Oops sorry Bob, no, it was the guy who sold Surahi to the women who owned her before I bought her from them ... gets complicated! He was the one who claimed she might be het pied, and it was the women who sold her to me as normal since she's got no papers.
I suppose if I moved house and had more room I might think of buying a pied male and let Surahi put herself about lol. A pied would be nice to have and males are cheaper of course. It's just a question of the offspring - I'm not sociable, don't have any contacts, and I have to make sure I can cater for any hatchlings who stay with me ... two viv stacks! |
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2011 : 00:48:53
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| Two viv stacks. You said it now so might as well go for it :-) |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2011 : 10:09:04
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I'd love a pied too : ) But I'm having to save enough room for a four foot viv for my future beardies (don't worry, it won't be for a few months yet), so no room for another three foot viv... unless I have it ontop of Tigs...
Anyway! Never mind that trail of thought X )
So the markings on her belly could mean nothing? He seems pretty confident in the video, though, of what her genes are. Maybe he knows something others don't : /
If it's not someting that could be passed on then I don't see a problem with breeding her then, as long as he gives plenty of time for her to heal. Just 'cause she looks OK outside doesn't mean everything has had time to right it's-self inside too. But, as said, she looks perfectly fine and he did say she's eats well.
Good luck to Stiches : ) |
Just me and my zoo. |
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2011 : 01:06:54
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| If the parents were 100% het pied to 100% het pied and she laid 4 eggs. 1 would be a pied, 1 would be normal and 2 would be het pieds. but because the het pieds look the same as the normals there's no true way of telling which 2 out of the 3 are het pieds so they are all classed as possible het pieds until proven. This can only be done by breeding them to see if they produce pied's. This is why breeders will look for certain markers that have shown up previously on proven het's of recessive snakes such as pied's. It's just a way of narrowing down your odds but it's still a gamble. Some breeders believe completely in these markers and others don't. The above is only a very basic way of explaining. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2011 : 08:49:27
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| So, what will happen to her if she's proven not to be a het pied? Will he still keep her? Still breed from her, or just keep her as a pet? I'm under the impression that a breeder of any animals doesn't like to keep any as pets. Or will he sell her on? |
Just me and my zoo. |
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hodgie
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1197 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2011 : 11:04:03
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| Back on the subject of stitches, good to see she`s made a good recovery. |
Royals owned "lots"
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blackskull
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1278 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2011 : 19:10:09
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| good to see it all turnd out fine. it still amazes me how hardy they can be |
1.1 normal royal, sully, silver
0.1 pinstripe royal, penny
1.1 pastel royal, lars, clover
0.1 lesser royal, serenity
0.1 black pastel royal, betty
0.1 mojave royal, mavis
0.1 normal het clown
1.0 pastel het clown
1.0 nuclear, ned
1.0 super phantom
1.0 childrens python, myles
0.1 hog island boa
0.1 sonoran x boa, grace
0.0.1 mack snow leopard gecko, munchkin
4.1 cats, stan, dave, marble, binx, daisy
4.1 rabbits, mol, ted, bill, spud, alice
0.1 crazy cat/bunny lady of bridgwater, lucy |
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lee2308
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2597 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2011 : 20:13:12
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| just watched the first video and im gob smacked at the way he did it,even though all turned out good i dont think a thinner needle,gloves and maybe using fishing line wouldnt of been too hard to get hold of. |
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Topic |
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Ralph Davis (stitches Pt 2)
