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Headlow
Hatchling
United Kingdom
58 Posts |
 Posted - 04/04/2011 : 11:27:33
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Morning all. I just had my '09 Royal out for a brief handle, and noticed as soon as she was out of her viv that her mouth was gaping (sort of hanging open). I could also feel her muscles spasming in my hand. At this time there was no particular rhythm to these spasms. After a minute or so she'd regained control of her mouth, and managed to coil round my forearm. At this time I could feel her muscles spasming in a very particular rhythm, it seemed to be in time with her breathing. This soon stopped as well, and by the time I put her back in the tank (5 minutes tops) I could only feel the odd contraction.
I have noticed something like this before on the 3rd of January immediately after a shed, only that time there was some cork screwing involved. She was fine the next day though and ate. She's shed since then with no recurrence of the above symptoms, and hasn't missed a feed at all. She's also been out and about as regular these last few nights.
I don't over handle her, roughly 3 times a week, for no more than 10 minutes at a time. She's kept in a 3 ft viv heated by a statted and guarded ceramic. Hot end of 32-33c and ambient temp of around 26 c. She's 3 hides in the viv, and I've noticed that she spends the majority of her time in the middle hide.
Is this an RI? Something else? I'm on the verge of taking the day of college and bringing her to a vet |
1.0.0 Mexican Milk
0.0.1 Mexi Black
0.0.3 Corns
0.1.0 Western Hognose |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 11:33:11
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Never heard of the muscle spasms for RI but that's not to say it's not possible, nor the mouth hanging open.
I don't know many other illnesses royals can have but I did a quick search on IBD and couldn't find any symptoms matching what you described so at least it's not that.
I'm sure somebody with more experience will be along shortly to help you out :) |
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Headlow
Hatchling
United Kingdom
58 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 11:58:54
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| Cheers. I've just booked her into the vets for half 3 |
1.0.0 Mexican Milk
0.0.1 Mexi Black
0.0.3 Corns
0.1.0 Western Hognose |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 12:05:24
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| Goodluck, keep us updated |
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Headlow
Hatchling
United Kingdom
58 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 12:14:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelfezond
Goodluck, keep us updated
Will do,
Thanks |
1.0.0 Mexican Milk
0.0.1 Mexi Black
0.0.3 Corns
0.1.0 Western Hognose |
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 12:44:24
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Good luck - sorry to be obvious but she's not a spider is she? They can often behave like this - inherited condition.
Yeah, I agree with Kelf, and her temps rule out any neurological damage. All the best with her, hope it's something that's easily cleared up. |
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Headlow
Hatchling
United Kingdom
58 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 18:17:20
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Not long back from the vets. He's not exactly sure whats wrong with her. He examined her, and he's pretty sure it's not an RI, but he seemed concerned about her balance and reactions. He laid her flat on her back and she was unable to right herself He's gave her an injection of antibiotics and another of anti inflammatories. I've to bring her back on Thursday for further medication, as I'm not confident at all about injecting her myself.
Anyone any ideas what this points towards?
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1.0.0 Mexican Milk
0.0.1 Mexi Black
0.0.3 Corns
0.1.0 Western Hognose |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 18:24:26
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Unable to right herself is known as stargazing which is a symptom of ibd but shes not showing other signs so not sure exactly.
And as bats says corkscrewing is a spider thing if shes a spider thats not a problem its supposedly harrmless to them |
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Edited by - Kelfezond on 04/04/2011 18:25:24 |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 18:39:39
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At work so lots of time spare doing some reading on ibd lets see if we can make sure she's not showing any other symptoms such as
Inability to strike or constrict?
Weight loss?
Regurgitation?
Heightened or exagerated reflexes?
Shedding problems?
Hopefully if none of those are showing either it's not ibd which would be good.
Hopefully somebody with more knowledge will be along soon and might be able to help |
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 18:49:45
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Ah, she's a normal isn't she? (Stalked you on the intro section.) Was hoping it was just wacky spider behaviour.
Sorry to hear it's rather a mystery, do hope the vet's treatment works.
All the very best. |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 18:56:10
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The unable to right itself is a puzzler, did she try to right herself but couldn't or did she just not bother trying. The first thing I thought with mouth open and caontracting muscles is an attempt to regurge, did she eat recently?
I saw a Boa that had a nasty RI and when it was put on its back it just lay there, so that is a posibility as there were no other symptoms such as bubbles, snotty nose etc.
Did you see an exotics vet?
Sorry lots of questions but not only do I want to help, I weant to learn. |
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Edited by - Lotabob on 04/04/2011 18:57:01 |
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Headlow
Hatchling
United Kingdom
58 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 23:00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelfezond
At work so lots of time spare doing some reading on ibd lets see if we can make sure she's not showing any other symptoms such as
Inability to strike or constrict?
Weight loss?
Regurgitation?
Heightened or exagerated reflexes?
Shedding problems?
Hopefully if none of those are showing either it's not ibd which would be good.
Hopefully somebody with more knowledge will be along soon and might be able to help
The only one of those that maybe applies would be about the reflexes, though I think the vet was more worried that they're slower than they should be.
She shed perfectly at the start of March and has only ever missed 2 feeds in the time I've had her, strike feeding every time. Her last feed was last Tuesday |
1.0.0 Mexican Milk
0.0.1 Mexi Black
0.0.3 Corns
0.1.0 Western Hognose |
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Headlow
Hatchling
United Kingdom
58 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 23:05:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Lotabob
The unable to right itself is a puzzler, did she try to right herself but couldn't or did she just not bother trying. The first thing I thought with mouth open and caontracting muscles is an attempt to regurge, did she eat recently?
I saw a Boa that had a nasty RI and when it was put on its back it just lay there, so that is a posibility as there were no other symptoms such as bubbles, snotty nose etc.
Did you see an exotics vet?
Sorry lots of questions but not only do I want to help, I weant to learn.
Yea it was an exotics vet she saw. I think there only is the one in Northern Ireland. Brave bit of a drive, but things like that don't matter when something you care about is sick.
She last fed on Tuesday of last week, and she didn't attempt to right herself  |
1.0.0 Mexican Milk
0.0.1 Mexi Black
0.0.3 Corns
0.1.0 Western Hognose |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 23:58:55
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Michael Griffiths in Newtownards? I've never been myself but he is highly reccommended, whether thats because he is the only one I don't know but word of mouth suggest he's the guy to go to.
To me (and I'm no expert, just a reading articles nerd) it sounds like a deep RI with possible fluid on the lungs/lung which could explain the mouth open and muscle contractions in time with breathing. Hopefully the injections will help to clear it. The not righting herself may just be weakness due to RI (it was that in the case I have seen) though you'll probably find out more when you go back as she will have responded to the treatment (most likely RI treatment) or if not then they can do more tests. |
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Headlow
Hatchling
United Kingdom
58 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 00:16:25
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| Yea It was Michael Griffiths in Newtownards. He seems to be a nice fella. Where abouts are ya? I'm in Lisburn. |
1.0.0 Mexican Milk
0.0.1 Mexi Black
0.0.3 Corns
0.1.0 Western Hognose |
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sandi
Sub Adult
787 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 08:37:47
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| Not being able to right herself is one of the signs of IBD. I think there is a thread on hear from a while back about this. |
0.1.0 Royal Python - Florence
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor - Boris
1.1.0 Alaunts - Willow & Brochan |
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BlueDragon
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
876 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 09:50:48
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When Tig's R.I. is bad he has problems breathing sometimes and it does sort of look like he's tencing up I suppose, but it's just him breathing deeply and having to try harder. Could it be that? He's never gaped his mouth and believe me he always tries to right himself if he's upside down, He doesn't like it. So I'm not sure what to say really. Could be R.I. from the breathing/spasm thing and open mouth, but I'm not sure about the not being about to right herself : /
I hope you find out what's wrong and she's better soon. |
Just me and my zoo. |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 19:02:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Headlow
Yea It was Michael Griffiths in Newtownards. He seems to be a nice fella. Where abouts are ya? I'm in Lisburn.
I'm in Belfast, thats good to know that Michael Griffiths' reputation has some substance to it.
Did you get hold (or was it reccommended) of some reptoboost and stick it in the water. I heard you can bath them in powerade but I don't see why that would help unless they drink it. Gives them a helping hand and some energy. I do hope it is a RI as its treatable, IBD is a nasty illness but if the vet thought it was that they would have tested for it. |
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Headlow
Hatchling
United Kingdom
58 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2011 : 22:21:27
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Well, I was down with the vet again tonight and the snake has shown a slight improvement. He says she's still a bit far from where he'd like her to be. I've got the antibiotics home with me and have to go back in a fortnight.
He did say that it is a neurological problem, but that he's not sure if it's viral or bacterial, though he's encouraged by the slight improvement.
Keep your fingers crossed for me, and more importantly the snake!
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1.0.0 Mexican Milk
0.0.1 Mexi Black
0.0.3 Corns
0.1.0 Western Hognose |
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2011 : 22:24:44
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But definitely and all the very best - and even a slight improvement's better than none.
Good luck! |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2011 : 22:31:46
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| Ah 'Jackson Pollocks' (swearbox dodge) fingers are very much crossed that improvement is a good sign that it will clear. |
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Royal Gaping and Muscle contractions
