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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
 Posted - 11/04/2011 : 18:48:59
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Hello everyone, figured i'd post here as I know you all well and you're as likely to give me the truth as others.
I'm currently a security guard as you all might know, i'm working on a games design course and hope to be a computer games designer and one day have my own games company, those in the know will know this is a common dream for those of my generation and the chances of getting the job I want are very, very low it's a highly sought after position. I have thought about this much over the course of my .. Well.. Course. And as a little insurance against possible failure, I got my SIA licence, this allows me to do security work and door supervision (bouncing) this isnt the job I want but the money is okay and I can live off it.
Now comes the part why im posting this on a reptile forum, i've been toying with the idea of putting some money away and investing it in snakes (possibly/probably royals) i've done my research and i've spoke to a few people, some who own reptille shops, some who breed from home for a living about starting my own breeding projects alongside my security work (this assume that I don't manage to get into games design of course) until my collection had grown to a suitable extent to start seriously breeding for a living. Most of the people I spoke to were in favour of this as they had all done it themselves and come out very well for it. However some people I spoke to said that it was a dying bussiness, that the larger corporations had mass produced morphs of such quantity at such low prices that it makes it hard for somebody starting out to rival them, to make sales and to get enough money.
I'm sure ther are some of you here with the same idea in mind about starting to take the hobby to a new level and some have probably tried and fail, others tried and succeeded. What are your opinions, do you think it's a viable option or a waste of time? This is an important decision for me and i'm not going to base my answer on the result of strangers on a forum but it will certainly help me make the decision myself. Thanks everyone for reading. |
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AddicksGlenn
Yearling
United Kingdom
388 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 19:08:32
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Hi Steve, my personal opinion would be to get into breeding as a hobby/interest firstly and then see how it develops from there.
You have the security/bouncer work to fall back on, and your computer games designing to hopefully achieve.
Good luck with whatever you decide.  |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 19:14:08
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| Thanks glen, that does seem the smart choice, and I guess i'm kind of heading towards that already with my recent purchases, it in my nature to jump into things headfirst and give it all i've got and I think if I were to think that I would one day be doing it for money i'd rather just get in as early as I can, I see every second I put off the decision to go into it that's another second towards more morphs being produced, less being in demand and less money being made from cheaper morphs, higher costs going up for high end morphs, i'm sure thats all in my head but it's a nasty feeling hehe |
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reptiledanny
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2106 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 19:21:15
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| haha, i think like glen sed it would be better to start breeding the snakes you have and see how it goes, and then from then on if you enjoy it then gradually increase your collection.i wouldnt think of it as a money thing at the moment, and see how it goes from there |
1.2 royal pythons 0.1 hog island boa 1.0 corn snake
sig made by stapey |
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MrsA82
Yearling
United Kingdom
437 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 19:27:12
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If you don't try it you will never know
And if you have deep pockets ;) |
  
2.4.0 Royal python
0.0.2 Cornsnake
1.1.0 Extreme red Albino Hognose
2.2.1 Crested Gecko
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 19:34:38
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| Yeah I think i'm kind of doing that already danny lol, I think I want to come to a decision to either say okay im going to go for this or to say okay enough is enough I need to stop buying snakes. My girlfriend won't be very happy if I keep buying snakes but she said if I was going to go for it as a business and a living she'd support me and I could buy what I needed (which sounds like one kickass way to sneakily get a pet anaconda lol) but I don't think she would be too happy with me getting more for just pets if that makes sense, I can kind of see her point. |
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MrsA82
Yearling
United Kingdom
437 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 19:41:19
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Let me know when a cb11- cb12 pied is ready ;)
I want the 90% one please female to :) many thanks
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2.4.0 Royal python
0.0.2 Cornsnake
1.1.0 Extreme red Albino Hognose
2.2.1 Crested Gecko
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon
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Edited by - MrsA82 on 11/04/2011 19:41:57 |
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 19:41:32
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I wish you luck, I really do.
I support what others have said, about going into it gradually at first - well, you're going to have to do that anyway under your present circumstances - space limitations, waiting for snakes to mature etc.
After breeding Siamese cats for 5 years - just as a hobby; the cats and I retired when the headcount got to 10 - I must say one or two things about breeding animals whether for pleasure or profit:
Nothing goes to plan.
Profits can't be reliably calculated.
Fashion dictates a good market or bad and that can't be predicted either.
But, if you don't have a go, you won't know if you could have succeeded or not - and why on earth shouldn't you?
I really do hope you succeed! |
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MrsA82
Yearling
United Kingdom
437 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 19:44:08
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If you have a big credit card
You could order £10,000 of balls from tsk £1000 delivery tho i think
$75 for a pastel now what's a bargain lol |
2.4.0 Royal python
0.0.2 Cornsnake
1.1.0 Extreme red Albino Hognose
2.2.1 Crested Gecko
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 19:47:43
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Thanks a lot bats :)
Im not to worried about space limitations 5 vivs could easily be turned inot a million racks (slight exageration) and as for the waiting to mature thats whats put me under pressure to decide now, in a few years I dont want to say 'damn I should have bought more snakes back in 2011'' and have to wait a few miore years for even more to mature.
But yeah the trends in breeding and purchases are what scare me a little, i'd hate to wake up with twenty young snakes unable to sale. |
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blackskull
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1278 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 20:08:46
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i was talking to a breeder a few weeks back and she said it can sometimes be difficult getting the prices they want for the royals due to the big breeders in the states. prople go into their shop trying to beat them down on price saying but i can get the same morph from such and such at a cheaper price if i import it.
but i think its much better to get a snake thats breed in this country rather than an import if u can. i think if its something u want to do and can afford it go for it. i intend to in time but not on large scale |
1.1 normal royal, sully, silver
0.1 pinstripe royal, penny
1.1 pastel royal, lars, clover
0.1 lesser royal, serenity
0.1 black pastel royal, betty
0.1 mojave royal, mavis
0.1 normal het clown
1.0 pastel het clown
1.0 nuclear, ned
1.0 super phantom
1.0 childrens python, myles
0.1 hog island boa
0.1 sonoran x boa, grace
0.0.1 mack snow leopard gecko, munchkin
4.1 cats, stan, dave, marble, binx, daisy
4.1 rabbits, mol, ted, bill, spud, alice
0.1 crazy cat/bunny lady of bridgwater, lucy |
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GMac
Grumpy scots admin
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 20:20:51
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one of the potential pitfalls is getting all these snakes having the time to let them mature and then find that they just wont breed, there is no guarantees that any pairs put together will produce the expected, hoped, outcome. Is a lot of money to be paying out for what in the end may well end up as pets.
The other downside is what you may pay or a morph this year you may not sell for the same in a few years time the market can be a fickle thing.
I think as the others do, take it easy get some breeding experience behind you and take it from there. |
 
Royals, Corns, Boa, Kings, Hoggy, Ratsnakes
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 20:26:57
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| Does seem to be the wise choice. |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 20:31:46
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| Is there not a sort of breeding exchange program (and if not why not, I call dibs on the idea) a group of owners getting together to stud out males for a percentage of the clutch. Its done with dogs. I can think of a few problems with it, disease spread etc ut with careful plannig it could give wannabe breeders the option of breeding with a shared outlay. PS not a business pitch like seen on another forum lol, just a thought. |
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GMac
Grumpy scots admin
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 21:50:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Lotabob
Is there not a sort of breeding exchange program (and if not why not, I call dibs on the idea) a group of owners getting together to stud out males for a percentage of the clutch. Its done with dogs. I can think of a few problems with it, disease spread etc ut with careful plannig it could give wannabe breeders the option of breeding with a shared outlay. PS not a business pitch like seen on another forum lol, just a thought.
there is Lotabob, many breeders and hobbyists do this quite successfully. |
Royals, Corns, Boa, Kings, Hoggy, Ratsnakes
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reptilemadd
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
969 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 22:15:15
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You can't call dibs on the stud Idea bob I already did on a couple of other posts lol, and still think as you say with the right poeple it would work rather like a co-operative, but back to the question in hand It's always been my experience that you never truly know whats involved in doing something till you try it for yourself,you can read marketing reports talk to other breeders etc,etc, but there will be blanks that can only be filled in by doing it yourself.
Unfortunately everyone wants a rolls royce but is only willing to pay the price of a focus, and with so many multi gene snakes out there now in a coulpe of years people aren't going to want single gene snakes when they could get a double or even triple gene for almost the same price. It's like the chicken and the egg, breeding what you have now will give you the boost you need to do it as a business, but you'll loose out on the more "expensive" morphs, but buying the more expensive morphs now will mean you need to charge more in the future, which in turn could mean you can't sell them.
The reptile industry is growing all the time but the more of us that buy them especially royals, look at whats being charged for them and think "wow I could make a decent living doing what I love" and start breeding them only to realise it really isn't that easy, so if I was you kelf I'd buy as many high full morphs and not hets as I could and for your first clutch limit the amount of eggs laid, see how easy selling the babies is, and if you find it hard since your collection will be high end you could always sell them as "ready to breed" and recoupe your money. |
1.0.0 beardie "magic"
1.1.0 100% Het Clown "Cerberus" and "Artemis"
0.1.0 Poss Calico "Ariadne"
1.0.0 Lesser " Kronos"
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 22:20:23
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| Yeah I had another chap who breeds saying the best thing to do is buy the most expensive high end morphs first as the lower end stuff they breed will sell to people who want to "Make their own" morphs and the higher end stuff can be put to use making more. Sounds kind of what you're talking about there :) |
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hodgie
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1197 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2011 : 06:50:03
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I think you also need to try and second guess what everyone will want to buy in 3 or 4 years time.
2 years ago Piebalds were selling for £1200 - £1500 they are now down to £700 - 800,
I would like to think that Piebalds and Clowns will be good investments but i could be well off the mark.
The ones that really shift though are the low end over produced morphs, pastels, pins, mojaves, spiders lessers etc are already within most peoples grasp and your guess is as good as mine as to what they will go for in 3 years time, but i would guess that very few if any will be over £150. |
Royals owned "lots"
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karl
Fully Grown Royal
1069 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2011 : 11:54:15
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unless you are investing thousands on snakes you aren't gonna make any real money on them.
As an example, Spiders, 3 years ago still in the mid 100s, females I saw for £800 in 2007. Saw one for £75 the other day.
To make any sort of cash you are gonna have to have LOTS of royals, and LOTS of gene combos. If you wanna breed to keep your collection running (as in to pay bills and fund future purchases then ok) that would be ok on a "decent" budget. You'd be lucky to get 2k from a clutch, take out your costs and there isn't much left.
As always you have to have money to make real money. Ain't life great.
please don't let me make you give in, I just think there are better ways to make money, and easier at that |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2011 : 12:04:17
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| Well yeah Karl that was what I was getting at :P The question I'm asking is if it's worth investing those thousands or not :) |
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karl
Fully Grown Royal
1069 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2011 : 13:22:57
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To me it seems the ever decreasing price is almost equal to the cost of the offspring, so what you make is ever decreasing. Also, how good is the market for 4 figure snakes (as that is where real money can be made, percentage wise)? The potential risk of loosing a snake, when it's your savings, also has to be a factor, what would happen if you had a dud male, or a female egg bound, first season.
Buy cheap cars, clean them to within an inch of their lives and sell them on, aim for £200 a car and your laughing, wish I still had the time. Between 4 friends we used to do a car a week, drive to the borders, pay circa £400 for a car, drive it home, clean the life out of it, sell for no less than £600. All it cost was 100 miles in fuel and lots of elbow grease. All we ever invested was that £100 each, so returns of £50 a car were one hell of an investment. |
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money
