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Laws
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1007 Posts |
 Posted - 12/05/2011 : 01:11:50
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most of u know ive been having issues with zac feeding , but im starting to worry as u can clearly see his spine .
we had partitioned his 30 x 18 x 15 viv , thinking this would help . but the other half watched him craw into the seperated area where its cooler , so we have taken the partition back off and packed it out again . im at a loss as to wat to try . my warm end temps are 32 and cold 22 (no heating on) and raises to 24 with heating on , plus there is plenty of hidey holes inbetween the two ends .
we have tried braining , hair dryer , damp mouse , warm mouse , covering the viv at nite , leaving mouse in over nite , making the viv smaller . we then dealt with a shed and tried him last nite to no avail . i took some pics of him to show u as u can see his spine and he has a pencil neck now .
has anyone got any ideas ? we want the best for him and i love him to bits , we are contemplating assist feeding or taking him back so they can try and get him feeding for us . we have had him since the 1st april , and his last meal was the 25 of march . he weighed 209 grams wen we had him , which dropped to 180 after a large poo . but we havent weighed him since , but u can tell he isnt as chunky and round as we got him at all . starting to get upset and worried :(
hes been more active the last few nights now he has shed , and is currently exploring even tho the missus held him while i sorted the viv back out , heres the pics
any help , adivce or anythin would be gratelly appreciated :( |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2011 : 10:12:37
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Can you feel his ribs under his belly? It's a better indicator than his spine.
If you're really worried you can try assist feeding, it's not too difficult and not as traumatic as force-feeding. I'd make sure he is losing enough weight to warrant it first though. |
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2011 : 10:57:46
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Ah, naughty Zac!
I'm assuming he's a cb10 - in which case he may well be undergoing the Great Fast, as some of them still are. (My Shahi's cf10 and I didn't think he'd be old enough to fast, but he did, from Jan on.)
Zac doesn't actually seem to have lost much weight, taking his dump into consideration. I'd certainly keep weighing him to check, and as Kelf says, a good idea to check his ribs. Appearance-wise he doesn't look too bad to me; certainly no different to my Saada, who's only eaten twice since the beginning of Jan. Before her last meal she had lost 40g (she's a tiny girl for her age) but since then she's had a good wee. However, she's an 09 and up till her fast she's fed well - which makes all the difference when it comes to worrying. It's nerve wracking when a snake arrives and doesn't feed at all for you.
Why not leave him for another week, try him again, and then, if he still doesn't eat, consult the shop to see what they think? They should be able to show you how to assist if they think that's necessary. Sometimes one assist can kick-start a reluctant snake into feeding, and as Kelf says it's not always traumatic; it worked wonders for his Diablo.
Good luck, and I hope you have success soon. Sorry if I've overlapped with anyone else by the way - was writing this and got interrupted. |
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Laws
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1007 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2011 : 12:29:51
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| he fed good until we had him , so i didnt kno if he was fasting or not , and im unsure wen he was born other than hes a cb10 . hes been roaming around now we have taken the partition back off . i asked my other half about his ribs and she said she couldnt feel any , so thats a good thing . i have heard taking them for a drive stimulates their feeding or is it a myth ? |
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2011 : 14:04:10
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Yeah, I've heard of that - not being a driver I've never put it to the test (no pun intended!) If you look on the last page of the feeding tips sticky on the general keeping section, you'll find Watty's account of what happened to him when he took his python for a drive.
I've even heard of strapping an electric toothbrush (or a more personal article lol) to a snake's rub; it's said that the vibrations stimulate appetite ... (Who in the world thought THAT one up??)
Tell you something that's worked for me sometimes (not all the time, and I've absolutely no idea why it should work or if it was that that made the snake eat.) I snip the neck of the rodent with scissors - half decapitate it in fact. I don't brain it, but I snip the spine. This came about when I despaired of Spooky eating when she was small, so I used to cut the head off the pinky and if I was lucky she'd eat the two bits. When I first knew about Cy, she wouldn't eat, and I told the supplier what had worked for Spooky, so they snipped the mouse's neck as above, and Cy took it. (She's still erratic but the snipped mouse trick still works for her - sometimes lol. She hates brained prey - she'll wince away from it, but the scent of mouse neck meat attracts her; she'll fuss over it even if she won't eat.)
Snakes, why do we have 'em eh?? Awkward little gits!!
Good luck! |
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hodgie
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1197 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2011 : 16:12:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Laws
most of u know ive been having issues with zac feeding , but im starting to worry as u can clearly see his spine .
i took some pics of him to show u as u can see his spine and he has a pencil neck now .
has anyone got any ideas ? any help , adivce or anythin would be gratelly appreciated :(
I know its really hard to try not to worry,
As for seeing the spine - I met John Berry a couple of months ago and spent the evening talking to him and one thing he told me was that far to many owners expect their Royals to be eating regularly and when they do they are generally over fed making them fat. On all my males i can see their spines just the same as you can see on your little one. Your little Royal has had a lot to deal with, moving home, new viv of differing sizes (not that thats a problem) but he may just need more time to settle. plus being male he doesn`t need to get fat and plump.
At least you now have his empty wieght, keep this on a recor every time he empties himself. Give him a few more weeks at least, lights out in the evening help him feel more secure as well. |
Royals owned "lots"
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2011 : 18:24:17
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Yeah as bats says nothing to worry about, i've seen thinner snakes too. If you can't feel a kind of space between his ribs he should be okay.
Also as bats says an assist feed worked great with diablo he took the assist great and then hasn't missed a feed since not even during shed. It's easy to perform as well but obviously completely unnessesary if he's not becoming too thin or ill |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2011 : 19:44:34
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| Zac is not a fatty but he is by no means thin either. There are so many possible reasons for him not eating I'm not surprised one bit that its getting a bit traumatic for you. If he isn't losing loads of weight then it is quite likely that the move has kicked him into a fast and he may just need a bit of grub in his belly to come out of it again. Keep an eye on weight and do your research on assist feeding as it may come ot it. |
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Laws
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1007 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2011 : 00:17:18
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| i think we will try feeding him as normal again wednesday coming and then if that fails try an assist feed after ive researched how to do it . hes been active the past new nites , we got rite of the partition as he kept finding his way into the other side so we figured he was happy enough with the space and have packed his viv back out again with loads of places to hide . we cover his viv at nite and wen we ave s tiny peek u can see his nose out of his hide most of the time . its just worrying i guess as its our first royal and the corns are dustbins atm and growing nicely . as long as u guys dont think he is as skinny as we see him it puts my mind at ease . any other things i can try in the mean time ? |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2011 : 00:33:59
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I hope they don't mind but its the only picture of an underweight royal I've seen and I hope they don't mind me borrowing it
So as you can see, your Zac, although not necesary as big as he could be its still not at a stage that you need to worry about.
I wouldn't reccommend having a go at assist feeding unsupervised for the first one, your local reptile shop should be able to show you the technique in a way that a youtube video can't. |
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Laws
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1007 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2011 : 00:38:34
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| i willt ry and get a better pic of zac as zacs neck is think like that and he is boney . i will take him to where we had him form as they said they will show us how to assist should we ever have problems , but they didnt seem to think we would . |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2011 : 00:41:43
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| Don't worry about their necks, even Duke has a scrawny little neck. |
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Laws
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1007 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2011 : 00:56:20
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| i just showed the missus and she said zac isnt that skinny , which is good . hes totally oblivious to all this stress haha ! im sure as soon as he has switched onto feeding he will be fine then . maybe he has forogt how good a mousey tastes ! kai ate btw after his regurge :) |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2011 : 01:07:56
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Its probably just bad luck that he moved to your house and either prompted by the move has decided a little bit of a fast in in order. He isn't as skinny as you think he is, when curled over my hand Duke's spine will protrude, its just how their body moves. They feel totally different to a corn snake, its maybe the difference thats throwing you, (I think Spot feels a bit like a bendy pencil, and Duke is like a balloon filled with treacle with a toilet roll tube in the middle, LOL)
Good stuff with Kai, regurge is much worse than fasting and you coped OK with that. |
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Laws
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1007 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2011 : 01:34:41
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| i think we had bad luck with the very first snake we had kyle , and the all this with zac , and hes bllody gorgeous and i just want him to eat and get settled so i can have him out abit lol . kai is great now , cheeky chappy is coming back , and kodi has totally come into herself and is a rascal . yeah corns feel totally diff and i agree on the bendy pencil , im still trying to imagine a teacle filled balloon with toilet roll.....lol!! |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2011 : 09:48:41
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| If you do turn to assist feeding feel free to give me a poke at kelfezond@hotmail.co.uk I can tell you how it worked with Diablo |
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Mamma
Yearling
United Kingdom
140 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2011 : 11:51:01
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| Roccos spine looks like that. He has no rib problems though. I have had him 3 weeks and hes not feeding for me either, although I was told he is feeding fine. I may have to try the assist thing if I cant get him to feed over the nxt few weeks. I have him covered up so hes nice and dark in hopes that that will help him settle in. I may try and feed him today see if he is interested. Good luck in getting him to feed. I will cross my fingers for you xx |
3.2 cornsnakes 0.1 mexican black kingsnake 1.0 albino californian kingsnake 1.0 pueblan milksnake
1.0 western hognose 1.0 vip t+ albino blood python 1.0 royal python 0.1 hog island boa |
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Laws
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1007 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2011 : 12:50:01
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| thanks kelf , we are gona try him wednesday normaly , as he had just come out of shed when we tried him and if that fails i will def give u a poke and u can give me some tips on tell me how it worked . thanks mamma i will keep my fingers crossed for ur little one too xx |
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Mamma
Yearling
United Kingdom
140 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2011 : 13:58:34
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Thanks. He stuck this time for me  but then spat it out  but I am hopeful things are progressing onwards posatively xx |
3.2 cornsnakes 0.1 mexican black kingsnake 1.0 albino californian kingsnake 1.0 pueblan milksnake
1.0 western hognose 1.0 vip t+ albino blood python 1.0 royal python 0.1 hog island boa |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2011 : 19:24:14
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| I would try the defrost on top of the viv and then just before you go to bed chuck it in, no fuss not messing about just open door, mouse in, go to bed, if you want him to feed on top of something, ie kitchen roll, put it in the day before, maybe even 2 days before (I'll not lie, I don't bother with it, I have a small metal tin bowl which seems to have no scent or something because he will eat out of the tin but even then he picks it out and drags it to his hide, substrate ingestion is a worry but he is big enough to deal with a few bits). The aim is to introduce the mouse in a way that doesnt fuss or disturb Zac in any way. He will be all hidden away, you'll switch the lights off and go to bed, and he'll have a sniff and pick up that prey is near nd hopefully because he's not been disturbed he will go on the hunt. |
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starting to worry alot now :(
