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deleted
7384 Posts |
 Posted - 05/10/2010 : 17:37:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Blackecho
What is the heatmat for?
Was that question for me?
Uhhh.... heating, I think ...
No, seriously, I've read on this forum that heatmats were fine for young snakes, but to switch to infra-red when the snake got to 1kg or so - Shahi's got a way to go.
As soon as the dimmer stat arrives I can have his infra red on all the time and, as I say, ditch the mat but reserve it for emergencies, if infra red's suitable for his tender months. |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 18:04:48
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| No, I meant why both, if you have the IR, what would you need the heat mat for |
 
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 18:05:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Roly
I think there's a certain amount of hysteria and dare I say it scare mongering associated with that post and the responses it has provoked.
There are more cases of thermal blocking around. Its a risk, if you're happy with that risk then that's your decision, I wouldn't risk my snakes.
This explains it well: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/509761-thermal-blocking.html |
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nok1888
Yearling
United Kingdom
314 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 18:52:33
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| Stuff that! Im cleaning Orlina's viv on Thursday so the mats coming out. She's only 850g ish but aint going to take the risk. I'd do it sooner but she's just fed yesterday so dont want to disturb her until shes out and about. Ive decided to change to red heat lamps will this be enough to keep one of her hides warm? the bulb is directly above her hide |
0.1.0 Royal Normal - Orlina Bodhi Lobsang
1.0.0 Royal Normal - Sedrick Rinzen Sonam
2.0.0 Cats 18 y/o - Monty, kitten - Dodger
2.0.0 Border Collie's 7 y/o - Jinky, 2 y/o - Chance
0.0.5 Goldfish - Haggis, Pookie, Oddball, Spongebob and Slimey (kids eh lol)
Strange creature, unknown species, wife likes to call it "teenage daughter"
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Snecklifter
Yearling
United Kingdom
144 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 19:18:13
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Firstly, its clear to me that the poster writing about the very badly injured snake had their opinion coloured by that experience, and you wouldn't expect it otherwise I suppose. But what should also be clear is that the injuries that particular snake had sustained were the result of prolonged and systematic negligence verging on the criminal, not the use of the heat mat in isolation - an analogy would be is it the gun that kills, or the person squeezing the trigger?
I understand thermal blocking and agree that it can happen and that injury can be sustained. However, if you accept that a heat source must be used then one must also accept that the introduction of a burning hazard is introduced, whether that is a heat mat or whether that is a light bulb (even the guard on a bulb can get hot enough to burn a snake if the snake comes into contact with it for long enough).
One mitigates against that hazard by guarding the bulb or connecting the mat via a thermostat. Although cases of heat blocking and associated injury are known, it must be considered against the number of captive snakes in existence against the instances of injury (what would also be interesting is to also compare this against burns suffered by bulbs, guarded or un-guarded) and this in turn gives the probability of injury, which I would suggest is at a remote overall level. Mitigation in the form of a thermostat and heat permeable substrate further mitigates against the risk of injury, which I would make an educated guess at subsequently being reduced to an improbable level (given the number of variables in play).
It is perfectly right that it is a risk and that the individual must assess and make a decision based upon their knowledge, but what I object to is the rather one sided opinion that heat mats should not be used full stop.
Poor old Nok doesn't know whether he's coming or going because of the conflicting advice being offered and may I suggest he has been panicked into the removal of the heat mat in his vivarium based upon this article as the risk of injury is almost certainly lower than he now perceives - as a properly maintained, regulated and monitored heat mat should not SIGNIFICANTLY increase the risk of burning in snake of Oriana's size. |
0.0.1 Royal 'Trowzer' |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 19:32:43
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| There is no conflicting advice, there is advice informing of a risk. As I have said many times, people are free to make their own choice, knowledge is power. |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 19:36:08
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quote:
Originally posted by nok1888
Stuff that! Im cleaning Orlina's viv on Thursday so the mats coming out. She's only 850g ish but aint going to take the risk. I'd do it sooner but she's just fed yesterday so dont want to disturb her until shes out and about. Ive decided to change to red heat lamps will this be enough to keep one of her hides warm? the bulb is directly above her hide
Yes a red bulb is fine, get a decent guard to go with it and you'll be laughing.
Dave ( reptilesink@gmail.com ) makes good guards with a hinged bottom for easy access to change the bulb if you need one. |
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Snecklifter
Yearling
United Kingdom
144 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 19:41:58
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Quotes:
'iv always kept my royals in a viv with only a heat mat and iv never had problems. As long as you have a mat stat your be fine. The snake would not burn itself even if it was laying directly on a heat mat at a temp of 31'
And
'NEVER HAVE A HEAT MAT ON THE INSIDE FLOOR OF A VIV THAT HOUSES ONE OR MORE HEAVY BODIED SNAKES'
I'm sorry, I would have to disagree that there wasn't conflicting advice. |
0.0.1 Royal 'Trowzer' |
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 19:46:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Blackecho
No, I meant why both, if you have the IR, what would you need the heat mat for
Because the heat mat is what Shahi started out on - as I said, I understood that heat mats were fine for slim snakes like corns, and young large bodied snakes like Shahi. It also came free with the viv. However, having read around on the forum, I planned a while back to move on to infra-red heating as Shahi grew bigger.
I was thinking of using infra-red for daytime/mat for night time simply to give Shahi a bit of extra light in the dark winter days. Even if I start to use infra-red exclusively, I shall retain Shahi's heat mat in his viv in case anything goes wrong with the light fitting or dimmer stat. (I'm a worrier and like to consider every worst case scenario lol.)
Phew, complicated, but I hope you get the drift. So, I gather I can use infra-red straight away (useful now the days are darker.)
There is one point though - and a point Roly has raised. When the light is on, Shahi is instantly fascinated with it. When I installed the bulb guard, he thought I'd bought him a new climbing frame and wrapped himself round it. That is one of the reasons I had the idea of combining the two methods of heating, so that the novelty might wear off...Young, gifted and thick, that's my Shahi!
By the way, Roly, I completely see your point. There's so much info, often confusing, that you can get to saturation point ... I HAD decided on infra-red a good while back - this thread hasn't influenced me in any way - but, oh boy ... is this snake keeping or rocket science!
At the end of the day we have to use our common sense and make our own minds up, I reckon ...
No offence, even inadvertently, meant to anybody, by the way ... gasp ... |
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nok1888
Yearling
United Kingdom
314 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 19:57:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Blackecho
quote:
Originally posted by nok1888
Stuff that! Im cleaning Orlina's viv on Thursday so the mats coming out. She's only 850g ish but aint going to take the risk. I'd do it sooner but she's just fed yesterday so dont want to disturb her until shes out and about. Ive decided to change to red heat lamps will this be enough to keep one of her hides warm? the bulb is directly above her hide
Yes a red bulb is fine, get a decent guard to go with it and you'll be laughing.
The guard Ive got on my ceramic doesnt even get warm so should be fine. Once Ive got the bulb in I'll keep checking it though to make sure |
0.1.0 Royal Normal - Orlina Bodhi Lobsang
1.0.0 Royal Normal - Sedrick Rinzen Sonam
2.0.0 Cats 18 y/o - Monty, kitten - Dodger
2.0.0 Border Collie's 7 y/o - Jinky, 2 y/o - Chance
0.0.5 Goldfish - Haggis, Pookie, Oddball, Spongebob and Slimey (kids eh lol)
Strange creature, unknown species, wife likes to call it "teenage daughter"
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 20:02:49
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| Cool, yeah, if the guard's good enough for a ceramic it will be fine for the IR |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 20:08:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Roly
Quotes:
'iv always kept my royals in a viv with only a heat mat and iv never had problems. As long as you have a mat stat your be fine. The snake would not burn itself even if it was laying directly on a heat mat at a temp of 31'
Sorry, but take this with a pinch of salt, the author of this quote also started this thread just a couple of weeks ago: http://www.theroyalpython.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4462
Now I know they are different issues, but someone who has been keeping Royals for 3 years should be able to sort their heat out, no?
Anyways, I think this thread has probably run its course. |
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reptiledanny
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2106 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 20:28:02
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| yes, i agree piers, i think that if people want to carry on using heat mats after this then its at there own risk now, they now the dangers, and i would never even risk any of them dangers, for the life of the snake, i would much rather spend a couple of extra quid to make sure no harm comes to nay of my snkaes |
1.2 royal pythons 0.1 hog island boa 1.0 corn snake
sig made by stapey |
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 20:37:52
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quote:
Originally posted by reptiledanny
yes, i agree piers, i think that if people want to carry on using heat mats after this then its at there own risk now, they now the dangers, and i would never even risk any of them dangers, for the life of the snake, i would much rather spend a couple of extra quid to make sure no harm comes to nay of my snkaes
As to that, off the top of my head, the cost of electrical fitting/infra red bulb/guard/dimmer stat is actually slightly cheaper than mat and matstat? |
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nok1888
Yearling
United Kingdom
314 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 23:34:03
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| Nice 1 cheers B.E |
0.1.0 Royal Normal - Orlina Bodhi Lobsang
1.0.0 Royal Normal - Sedrick Rinzen Sonam
2.0.0 Cats 18 y/o - Monty, kitten - Dodger
2.0.0 Border Collie's 7 y/o - Jinky, 2 y/o - Chance
0.0.5 Goldfish - Haggis, Pookie, Oddball, Spongebob and Slimey (kids eh lol)
Strange creature, unknown species, wife likes to call it "teenage daughter"
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jimb87
Snake Mite
12 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 23:35:02
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lol i heard snakes taste alright when cooked the chinese eat them anyway
Joke |
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jimb87
Snake Mite
12 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 23:52:30
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im not gonna say anymore on this thread after this, if my snakes do get burned by there heat matt i will swap over to a bulb. I have never had a problem with heat mats before and hope i never do touch wood, You can look at a number of care sheets online, and heat mats are recomended. Even by new england reptile distribution. ( the most succsesful royal breeders) snakes get burned by bulbs just as well as heatmats its a risk you just have to take if you want to keep them.
Also blackecho, that 2 week old thread of mine you brought up, basicaly iv seen people set up racking systems using a heat strip taping the thermostat probe to the heat strip and powering 5 or 6 RUB's of 1 thermostat and 1 heat strip. I tried to do the same with a RUB or in my case fanarium and it seemed the heat would not reach a high enough level (displayed on seperate thermometer) unless the thermostat probe was inside the tank itself. In this case when i breed next season im gonna need a single thermostat for each hatchling box. That cant be right can it? |
Edited by - jimb87 on 06/10/2010 01:15:20 |
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Gingerpony
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2663 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2010 : 10:17:45
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quote:
Originally posted by jimb87
if my snakes do get burned by there heat matt i will swap over to a bulb.
 what an uncaring attitude 
an analogy if you will...........
do you look before you cross the road? yes? because you've been knocked over by a car or because you know it's the safe thing to do to PREVENT INJURY? |
Dumerils boas, BCO hybrids, Sinder Hypo boas, cornsnakes, ratsnakes, Day Geckos
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Snecklifter
Yearling
United Kingdom
144 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2010 : 10:39:35
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| I would agree that Jim's approach might not seem the most caring! But in one respect, he is perfectly correct, there is a lot of conflicting information available (yes, even from those who've kept Royals for years)on the internet and in books (written by experts - allegedly) and it is extremely difficult to decide who is providing the best advice. Clearly different methods work for different owners and it should be best left to those owners to find a solution, however, it is unhelpful to suggest that one method is the only solution. I might add that I respect the views expressed by others on this website and have no intention of causing offence. |
0.0.1 Royal 'Trowzer' |
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nok1888
Yearling
United Kingdom
314 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2010 : 12:52:47
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| Well I switched off my heat mat last night, I just wont take the chance, and the temp inside the warm hide has only dropped by 1 degree so far. As for my ceramic guard it doesnt even get warm. If the warm hide stays at 29C I'll be happy, its still 3/4C above cool side and she has a basking area of 31-33C under the lamp so shes still got 3 different temps to choose from. |
0.1.0 Royal Normal - Orlina Bodhi Lobsang
1.0.0 Royal Normal - Sedrick Rinzen Sonam
2.0.0 Cats 18 y/o - Monty, kitten - Dodger
2.0.0 Border Collie's 7 y/o - Jinky, 2 y/o - Chance
0.0.5 Goldfish - Haggis, Pookie, Oddball, Spongebob and Slimey (kids eh lol)
Strange creature, unknown species, wife likes to call it "teenage daughter"
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heatmat in viv
Topic Locked
