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Brett1980
Snake Mite
26 Posts |
 Posted - 31/10/2010 : 11:45:58
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Hi all,
first of all i appollogise if this question is always asked, i have done many searches and when searching for a possible problem all you will find is info on that problem not how common it is.
My wife and i are looking to get a snake around dec, this will be our first snake and were starting the research early as its something we believe should be done before taking on any animal.
As a first time keeper everyone we speak to (with a few exceptions) is recommending a corn snake, while they are beautifull it is the royal python that we fall in love with everytime we see and whose general placid slow temperment we feel will better suit us.
Now the majority of people seem to be pushing us away from a royal's due to feeding problems, searching for this on the internet obviously doesnt result in many posts "my royal doesnt have a feeding problem" forum responses seem to be an equal mix of people with no problems and people with (or people that have heard of problems).
on sat we visited a reptile shop that was recommended to us by someone who's family and friends have all kept reptiles for a long time and are highly regarded in the rep world,whilst the shop owner still recomended corns as a first snake, when we told him how we feel about the royals he told us they are another good first snake, many questions followed about feeding issues and as to how much royals can be handled without stressing them. His answers have intrigued me to research more into royals after nearly striking them of my list of possibles.
I was told that feeding issues are rare among cb royals, that they will sometimes take a little to settle into a new home and that occasionally they will go on fast but this is part of there natural behaviour and if they do fast to weigh them regular, as long as they dont loose weight (which is very rare)then all is ok. The chap seemed very confident about this and offered to help with any problems if they occured.
As far as handling his seemed to love it he had his own 2 adults in the shop that he was trying to breed and whenever someone walked by they were nosing and climbing on the glass to come out, he told me they love to be handled and he takes them out as much as he can and that it doesnt cause them stress or problems eating, he also told me how these two snakes are used around the schools with children and again theve never had problems, when he opened them up they were straight out and on him, he also had a couple of cb10 juveniles in that he told us are often out with him and when he opened them up they were straight out and seemed to love to be handled, there was no defensive postures and they didnt roll up into a ball at any point, just seeming content to wrap around his and our wrists and to chill out there.
Now i know behaviour is largely down to individual snakes but the way his snakes were has made us even more in love with royals, there such amazing gracefull creatures.
So rather than asking do royals have feeding problems other than what has been suggested is a natural fast (this seems to get answered mostly by people who have experienced problems) id like to ask people to post up there experiences both good and bad and i would also appreciate if anyone would like to share there thoughts and opinions on keeping a royal as a first snake.
Many thanks
Brett |
0.1.0 royal python |
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hodgie
Fully Grown Royal
United Kingdom
1197 Posts |
Posted - 31/10/2010 : 12:04:34
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Hi Brett, welcome to the forum. I got my 1st Royal in April last year, now i have 6, i love them to bits they are very easy to look after, females are more active than males in my experience ( i have 3 of each) as with feeding issues Royals are fine they just dont eat as often as most other breeds, they are quite happy to just stop for a few months or to just slow down to 1 feed every 6-8 weeks, its the inexperienced owners who dont understand this then they get stressed and blaim the snake.
Good luck in your purchase.
One other thing, think long and hard on your husbandry, do you want a viv which will be visually interesting to your eye or buy RUB`s and have a small rack system (because once you`ve bought 1 you`ll probably want more). After speaking with more experienced owners/breeders a rack system really is the way to go, Royals do much better in them. Plus they are cheeper and easier to clean. |
Royals owned "lots"
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Brett1980
Snake Mite
26 Posts |
Posted - 31/10/2010 : 12:26:01
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thanks for the reply hodgie
i had wondered if it was inexperience and panick after people owning something like a corn which feeds regular.
As far as the rub vs viv debate, im not sure, im thinking about using rubs untill it will be at a size to go into a final enclosure at which point i think a viv would be nice, set up to look natural and with plenty of foliage and hiding spots. Having said that i can see how this will be adictive and i do see the advantage to rubs, both for me and the royal. My wife prefers the viv idea tho so we will have to see what happens with time and more importantly which the royal will prefer. |
0.1.0 royal python |
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 31/10/2010 : 12:56:19
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Hi, Brett, and welcome to the forum. Yes, as above - on researching before buying my royal I came to the conclusion that they don't have feeding 'problems' - their feeding cycle is just something that they do; it's natural. As to handling, every snake is different, and in my experience they will have times when they're bold and other times when they want to be left alone. I started with corns, who are delightful, but fell in love with royals, and I handle my snakes when they ask. You can't expect a consistent response from them though; you have to be there when they want you to be.
I can't say I'm terribly experienced, though; I bought a cf10 male in July, so I'm new to all this myself. I was advised not to handle him until he had taken 4 or 5 feeds, but he went into blue the day after I got him and had a dreadful shed, which meant bringing him out for a bath and assist. He didn't eat after this, although he showed great interest in the mouse, and I was worried sick. With hindsight I think I should have offered the mouse with tongs - as soon as I tried that he struck. Or perhaps he was just ready to feed. I live alone and keep him in my bedroom, so he has a quiet and private environment. From the first he was fascinated with my cats but from reading and observing Shahi I really don't feel a royal has the temperament for a busy social life! (Neither do I, so we suit each other.) Obviously some royals seem accustomed to handling and public display, like the ones you describe in the shop, but, and this is probably just me, I think they need a lot of privacy. Shahi started out with a towel hanging in front of his viv windows and now he has a net curtain over his cool end window. After that slow start, feeding wise, he's a total gannet!
I think, that if the owner puts in plenty of research, as you're doing, and takes things nice and slowly, a royal is okay as a first snake. I think it is the people who want a snake as an 'instant pet' and who do not want to study or consider the animal's needs (and this goes for all animals) who are most likely to run into difficulties. However, having said this, every snake is different, and problems may still be encountered. I think the most important point to stress is: is a prospective owner prepared to deal with these problems? Do they have the time and the patience? If the household is noisy, can they ensure the animal has peace and privacy if needed? Can they say 'no' to children who, understandably, want to touch and handle? All children are different too - some are marvellous with pets; others may be too young or impulsive to respect an animal's needs. (And adults may make mistakes too - I know I have. That's why I like this forum - there is always someone to answer a query, and there's always something new to learn.)
I think that, perhaps is what royals, and every animal, are all about. They're a learning curve (though there are times when it might feel like a roller-coaster!) You sound as if you're prepared for that - hope you get your royal!
Sorry to be so long-winded - hope this helps. |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 31/10/2010 : 15:22:30
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Hi, welcome to the forum.
Don't get a Corn if you don't 'love' them, it would be wrong to take on a snake that could live 30 years if you're not really into them.
Hodgie has answered really well regarding the eating. It is entirely natural for them to stop eating for periods of time. We are acustomed to mammals like Cats and Dogs that eat regularly, so a snake not eating for a month or two really worries new owners. You will get used to it eventually!
As to the handling, I'm afraid I can't help much, I only tend to handle mine when weighing or cleaning them. |
 
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 31/10/2010 : 17:43:34
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Hello Brett, welcome to the forum
I'm pretty new to keeping royals myself, I had a corn snake for a long time but had to sell her and when I got the chance to own another snake I wanted something bigger so I went to my local reptile show and bought a young 09 female whom I named "Valhalla" all of my problems are on this forum and they were all resolved in a matter of days and in some cases hours, if you search for Valhalla you'll probably find most of my posts.
Recently I bought a male royal, his name is Diablo. When I got him I was completely and utterly shocked at his behaviour difference compared to Valhalla. They are polar opposites you wouldn't even believe they were the same breed of snake the way they act. Diablo cannot sit still and much like the chap at your reptile store he loves coming out and getting some exercise, Valhalla throws a hissy fit whenever I open her cage. When I hold her she is very, very nervous and hates to be touched, she's generally okay slithering over my hands or my lap but if I have to pick her up she twitched away from my touch and moves her head far away, she's even hissed and struck for me a few times, although I've only been bitten by her once which was a rather random episode (You can read about it in one of my pervious posts if you have any interest)
Valhalla has a wonderful appetite and the only time I've had her refuse to eat was on her first week with me, she strikes within seconds of catching the scent of a mouse these days so I can't comment on how the royals are like for fasting, I've not tried feeding Diablo yet but will do in a few days.
All in all I'd say Royal's are great starting snakes, I've found them no more or less difficult to keep than my Corn snake. With some help from the lovely people on this forum I've gone from a stumbling fool who didn't have a clue what to do to feeling confident enough to buy a second and even think about breeding next year within the space of a few months.
So if you do decide to get a royal, you're in safe hands here :D |
\v/ Click me for Kelfezond Reptiles Facebook Page! \v/
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Snecklifter
Yearling
United Kingdom
144 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 09:06:25
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Only have one so am no expert, but he pretty much broke all the 'rules'. We got him as a hatchling but put him straight into a 2' x 1.5' x 1.5' viv, worrying that it might be too open for him. We gave him plenty of hiding places and he's been absolutely fine. He fed the day after we got him home and he has continued to feed regularly since, whether he's in blue, due to shed or whayever. He is happy to be handled regularly, again, whether he's in blue or about to shed. His shed's have all been clean, we've had no problems.
So as you can see, Royals are very much individuals, but speaking from a personal point of view have found ours to be a very good first snake, in fact I quite often wonder what all the fuss is about.
If you want one, get one, I did my research which helped a lot, but have found that I've had to pretty much chuck the book out the window! |
0.0.1 Royal 'Trowzer' |
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Welly
Yearling
United Kingdom
423 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 09:21:22
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Royals are lovely, mine is still my favourite.
AS said above, the whole going off food thing has only happened once with Sabre and that was when i was trying to convert her over to Rats.
Now she eats fine and never misses. They are lovely tame animals, once you get to read their body langauge you will see when is best to handle them.
I'd advise to spend more time researching the needs for the viv and husbandry. Look at heating and temp reading's. Are you and your family happy with rodents in your freezer? Who will look after it when your away? Where is the nearest Reptile vet?
Don't forget there is a wealth of info on the net and especially here. We were all starters once so just ask. |
0.1.0 Royal Python
0.0.1 Mexican Black King
1.0.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa |
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chris100575
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
743 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 10:30:16
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The only real "problem" with a royal as a first snake is their tendency to go off their food. About this time last year Princess went on a seven-month fast. It was a bit of a worry, but this site helped a lot as there were a few other people whose royals were doing the same. She's now started refusing again, so I think this winter she's going to do the same.
I now know that it's natural, that there's nothing wrong with her, and that she'll eat again when she's ready, so this year it won't be a worry. On the upside, Feather's getting big enough to eat what Princess doesn't so there will be no more wasted rats.
Princess is quite a nervous snake, if she has her head out of her cave quite often she'll go back in if she sees you looking at her, and she likes to spend most of her time hiding. She's good when she's handled but never seems to relax like Feather does, so I keep handling her to a minimum because I think she'd probably rather be left alone.
In short, she's a bit of a recluse and she's picky with her food, but she's lovely and it's a bit of a treat when we do see her out and about. |
0.1.0 Royal Python - Princess
0.1.0 BCI - Feather |
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 17:54:29
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I've had mine for 2 years now. I have a small collection - currently at 7 royals.
Here's my 2 cents:
1.) The reason corns are suggested as first snakes whereas royals are more a "first snake but..." snake is because corns are more forgiving of non-ideal situations than royals. Their natural habitat is close to a normal indoor household environment, therefore, you can accidentally kick the power cable of the heat mat/heat bulb turning it off, and the corn will survive as long as your house A/C is running fine.
Royals are not as forgiving - although, you will see that royal owners have a wide variety of set-ups. A royal's natural habitat is a lot hotter and more humid than normal indoor household environment in the USA or UK. They don't do too well under 80F temps. And the first thing a royal does when it is not comfortable is to stop eating.
But, as a new snake owner, I truly believe that royal pythons are the best at "training" the snake keeper in proper care of pet snakes. Just because a corn continues to thrive when the heat mat got broken doesn't mean you should keep him that way. You know what I mean?
So, if you want to have a snake that is more forgiving if you somehow go into short periods of neglect, then a corn is a good choice. If you want to have a snake that gives you feedback when things aren't quite right so you can learn to "troubleshoot" and "read" snakes behavior, then the royal is better at that.
Royals quit eating for a variety of reasons - knowing what the reason could be (whether it's just a change in seasons, or whether the viv needs to be adjusted, or if it is sick, etc.) - is one of the skills we gain out of owning these wonderful pets. That in itself is a satisfying experience when you start to "read" your snake's quirks. It is very rewarding.
2.) A lot of times we assign human emotions to snake behavior. It is okay and we actually like to do that to make snake keeping more fun. But, we keep in mind that these are snakes. A dog or a cat have their own "natural behaviors" - they are a lot closer to human behavior than a snake's behavior. So that when you are petting your dog you know they LOVE it because their pleasure at being petted is similar to a human's. Dogs are pack animals which is really not that far off from human behavior - we live as families with the father (usually) as the alpha of the pack. Dogs are similar where they seek packs and submit to a dominant alpha. So that, when we have dogs, we welcome them as part of our pack, with the pet owner as the alpha that the dog submits to.
A royal though, they are not social creatures. They don't "love" to be with us. They don't have that in their nature - a royal mother leaves the eggs the minute they feel that the egg will survive to hatching. They don't wait around to nurture the young. The hatchlings leave the clutch to go out on their own the minute they crawl out of the egg. They don't stay in a pack.
Therefore, a royal, by nature, would really rather be left alone than handled. But, we can strike a compromise between our need to "touch" and the snake's need to be left alone by getting the royal used to handling. Therefore, they will start to tolerate handling as part of their life in captivity.
A dog, by nature, enjoys exploring its surroundings and marking new territory. They are closer to a human's desire to explore its surroundings so that a dog owner and his pet dog share that "walking" time as a bonding moment. A royal, by nature, stays in a burrow unless hungry or breeding or hot/cold or in danger. They don't "cruise" to "enjoy" or "mark" its surroundings... they "cruise" to find a better burrow. So, as a compromise between our need to "see" these guys in action, and their need to "hide", we put them in a display viv with plenty of hides and encourage them to "cruise" their vivs. Some people just let their snakes be and put them in a rack that acts as their burrow and just makes sure that the "burrow" has everything that the snake needs to be comfortable.
In conclusion:
After all these yapping that I'm doing... all I really wanted to say is - there are 2 kinds of keepers, those who leave the royal to be a royal, and those like most of us who leave their royal to be, well, a "pet royal". Most of the time, we start out treating our snakes like our pet dog so that new royal owners get frantic when the royal skips a meal or get excited when the royal cruises its viv 18 hours a day. Then we start to learn their behavior and we tend to adjust our expectations to be closer to what a royal is. Then we smile at the new royal keepers who are pulling their hair out after 2 skipped meals because we've "been there, done that"...
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Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
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reptiledanny
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2106 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 18:06:33
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i got my first royal in june, i had considered royal last year in about july, but like you was put off them because if all the horror stories you hear baout them not eating for months and i had a corn snake at this point and i hated it if he had a funny turn or refused a meal (even though he never did refuse he just took about 10 mins to be interested in the mouse). i instead got a gecko. although i still love this gecko to bits, if i were to go back in time i would probably not get the gecko, i would rather have got the royal. i now own 2 royals, and i love them all to bits. i think fate worked out best and the male which i got first has to have the best ever demperament, he loves to be handled and always stays near me when out with me. i got my feamle only a couple pf days ago so i cannot comment on her behavour. my male refused the first week i got him and i thought here we go, the legend is true that they are so fussy, but i shared all my fears with the forum and the next week he took his feed. ever since then the only time he has refused is when he is in shed. the female i ahve had for just over 2 weeks now and both times i have tried to feed her shes refused but i think this is partly because of the wheather and partly because she is still settling in. although i think she will def feed this weekend for me as she is as active as ever and between her and him the keep me awake at night rustleing between all the leaves they have in there cages.
as long as you ahve done your research you will find them very pleasent to look after and a thrill to have. i love them so much that i already have plans for the future to get more in about 5 years time as i am only 15 and parents say no more until i leave home :(
the feeding issue is soething you get used to after a while and by far the joy of owning them overways the feeding issue
i hope you get on and i look forward to many questions yuou will probably have in the future
and remember there is no such thing as a stupid question, we are always here to answer your questions |
1.2 royal pythons 0.1 hog island boa 1.0 corn snake
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deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 19:16:37
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LOL, yes, Anatess and Reptile Danny, don't I identify with that worrying thing! Yes, I worried like mad when I had to handle Shahi before it was time and I was terrified I'd put him off eating and let him down. (Also, I'd had a bit of disturbing feedback about his background, but that is another story.)
Yes, it's the fate of the new and conscientious owner to agonise over every detail, even though you may realise later that it was unnecessary. But, isn't it better to worry than think, oh, it'll be all right ...
Hell while you're going through it though!  |
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Brett1980
Snake Mite
26 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 20:16:42
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out of interest would 2.5 ft by 1.5 ft be to small for an adult royal, whilst the juvenile will be kept in rubs or fauns im looking to an old piece of tall standing furniture that can be converted if this gets addictive it could be made into 3 vivs and one large arboreal enclosure (wife is thinking cresties) or simply single viv and storage space :P.
Cheers Brett |
0.1.0 royal python |
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Brett1980
Snake Mite
26 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2010 : 12:37:46
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well we are now the proud owners of meds (medussa) shes a cb10 of around 3 months and is a strike feeder :)
We had a bit of a nightmare time leading up to getting her tho, we opted to go with a large flat faun, heat mat and pulse stat, spent a long time trying to get the temps right and tried many various layouts, but that heat mat simply wont heat the upper substrate or the air, sure the temps are good on the plastic bottom of the faun, but the rest is to cold for my liking, Luckily the guy where we got here from came to our rescue and we have a small clear seal fish tank with proper viv conversion lid, this came with a microclimate minstat 300 which were using to control the guarded ir heat bulb and the sides are covered with polystyrene, just working on stat probe and thermometer placements but we seem to be around 32-34 hot spot, steady 28 around the middle and 25-26 at the cool end. She seems happy and has been exploring and climbing, today she is curled up under the foliage instead of her cool side box, hopefully a sign she is settling in..
sorry for the redness on the pics, better will follow when she has settled and i can take her our.
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0.1.0 royal python |
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reptiledanny
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2106 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2010 : 13:03:15
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she looks adorable, and glad that breeder came to the rescue and had spare stuff to give you
everything sounds fine with her, and her hiding under the fauliage is just her finding the best spot where she cannot be found lol, you spend all that money on nice hides and they always go and sleep out in the open, behind them or under something else
look forward to seeing more pics and if you have any other questions just ask, there is no such thing as a sily question
oh, and welcome to the addiction!!!!! just dont look at any for sale otherwise youll end up with more |
1.2 royal pythons 0.1 hog island boa 1.0 corn snake
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Brett1980
Snake Mite
26 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2010 : 13:57:27
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to true on the hides,
exoterra rep cave's havnt been used once, she much prefers the cup a soup box under the foliage :/ |
0.1.0 royal python |
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reptiledanny
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
2106 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2010 : 13:59:05
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| lol, bow was like that, i bought lots of different things to put in her cage, where diod she lye, behind the hot hide with only a plant abover her :/ they always choose the cheap hides lol |
1.2 royal pythons 0.1 hog island boa 1.0 corn snake
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deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2010 : 15:33:45
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Congrats - she's a beauty!
Certainly sounds like she's settling in - know how you feel; a week yesterday I came home with my Saada, who I then didn't see for a week!!! But she fed today; can't wait to handle her but will leave that up to her - it's hell waiting, isn't it, but they are such wondrous creatures ... do you find yourself sitting by the viv, just watching?
As other people have said, welcome to the addiction! |
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Brett1980
Snake Mite
26 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2010 : 15:40:14
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rofl yes i do,
im sat here and keep constantly looking over to see if she is out and about, if i spot her ill be sat there watching her every move, amazed at how well she can climb using what seems like nothing to pull herself up onto ledges, cringing as she trys to poke her head through the heat guard (only the front fits in but doesnt stop me from mini heart attacks lol) and finding myself amazed at the grace with which she moves.
i think the addiction is kicking in |
0.1.0 royal python |
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Robert
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
957 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2010 : 20:08:48
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| I got my first royal 18 months ago and now have 8, they are erratic feeders by nature but beautiful and docile animals and very addictive once you own one you want more :) given the fact that they can live for 40+ years it is a big commitment but if you can cope with that then a Royal is for you :) |
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Brett1980
Snake Mite
26 Posts |
Posted - 15/11/2010 : 20:50:26
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thought id post up how the vivs growing, plenty of places to hide, the large ivy style plant was a bargain from a local fake plants place :P
next thing will be to get the fake background on there and to get the outer poly fastened up better than duct tape.
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0.1.0 royal python |
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potential new royal python keeper
