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speedy231278
Hatchling
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
 Posted - 13/12/2010 : 13:06:07
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Apologies in advance for asking the usual uneducated questions. I've had a look around this forum and others for general info, but I'd like make sure that I've got at least half a clue (and preferably all of it!) before I take the plunge.
Yesterday the missus and I were in a local pet shop, as she's decided she wants an axolotyl, but that's another story. While we were there, she mentioned her wariness of the size pythons get to in comparison to our corns, whereupon the owner almost immediately produced a gorgeous female royal python to prove otherwise. Unfortunately she took to both of us almost immediately, and after being able to handle a couple of equally fine examples, I've been offered an unexpected xmas present that I am struggling to refuse.
However, I don't like getting unfamiliar pets without doing a bit of research first. This particular python is apparently five years old, seemed to me to be around or approaching three feet, and has previously produced a clutch of eggs (although I'm not interested in breeding). I was told that for this size a two foot viv would be adequate as they appreciate smaller spaces and aren't particularly interested in exploring. My creamsicle corn recently moved home into a bigger viv, so I have a 24x15x15 viv going spare, which I mentioned, and was told that that would be fine. Being used to corns and the length plus depth rule of thumb I cannot help thinking that this may be a little too small for her at this size, however in the shop there are several cohabiting in an area that can't be much bigger, if at all. I'm resigned to the fact that I'm convinced on giving her a new home, but ideally would she be better off with a bit more space? I understand that like corns big spaces can intimidate them, but I don't want to cramp her either!
What size viv would you guys put a roughly three foot specimen into?
Secondly, and proably even more importantly is heating. I don't have any heat source yet because the heat mat was resued in the bigger viv. Some people would apparently be aghast to learn that we have un-statted heat mats in our current corn setups, however over several years these have worked perfectly well, giving a good temperature gradient with no thermal blocking issues. However, most people seem to recommend not using one with larger bodied snakes for this very reason, so it looks like I'll be getting some form of heat lamp. But which type, and what sort of wattage? A stat is obviously a must as even the smallest wattages I can find are many times that of the mats we have, and they keep our four foot vivs at the right temp levels, however, what sort come with the best recommmendation? I don't want a toasted snake, or a frozen one, nor a huge electric bill - I'm already running the best part of a kilowatt of kit if you add up my fish tank equipment and the existing corns! And yes, I'll be putting a guard on the lamp... ;-)
So, if you've sensibly scrolled down all the waffle, the summary is:
If you experienced royal python owners were going to be acquiring a three foot specimen to be put into a display tank rather than a plastic box, what kit would you recommend? Money isn't exactly tight, but while I don't buy cheap rubbish for my pets (or my vehicles!), I don't usually go for stuff that's flash, over the top and unnecessarily expensive. I just want something that is reasonably priced, does the job, and comes with a recommendation from people who know far better than me....
Ta! |
2.1.0 royals
1.2.0 corns
0.0.3 motorcycles
0.1.0 she who must be obeyed... ;-) |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 14:14:06
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Hello and welcome Mr. Speedy and a bunch of number :D
I'm relatively new to royal pythons, got my first in September and am up to 3 now with breeding plans in the future.
If you have the space available I'd recommend a 3ft viv, I'm currently buying a 5 viv stack for my room and each viv in the stack is 3ft long (about 22inch deep and 17 inch high but that's not a big deal) I chose the 3ft vivs mostly because I'm a little paranoid about putting my snakes in a too small viv ( i know as you do that they love small spaces but meh) I figure I can always pack a load of hides and branches and what not in a big viv to make it very compact and small and as I've read a 3ft viv is big enough for pretty much any sized royal.
On to heat! as I like to be able to see my little scaley friends crawling around at night I chose to use lamp heating as you did (at the time I wasn't aware that heat mats can cause trouble with fat snakes) but I chose a infa-red bulb to heat with a dimmer stat, this has caused no problems and most of the time it's on a very dim setting. It is said that the snakes cannot see infa red light so having constant light doesn't stress them out as where normal light would.
My expertise isn't exactly veteran ranking so you're best double checking with the posts that will surely follow mine :)
I wish you good luck with your new snake and I hope we'll be seeing more of you and the new snake on these forums! |
\v/ Click me for Kelfezond Reptiles Facebook Page! \v/
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CoN
Yearling
United Kingdom
400 Posts |
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speedy231278
Hatchling
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 16:00:27
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I get the distinct impression that this present is going to cost me more in kit than the giver.... lol
Let's make the assumption that I go for a 3x2x2 and a ceramic bulb and PP stat (don't want an light emitting bulb as there's a small chance she may end up in our bedroom until the lounge can be properly sorted). What sort of output would be sufficient to keep the warm end at the right sort of temperature without wasting the capacity (and cost) of the bulb? Also, do you site the sensor more or less under the bulb, or a little way towards the cooler end of the viv? |
2.1.0 royals
1.2.0 corns
0.0.3 motorcycles
0.1.0 she who must be obeyed... ;-) |
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 18:34:29
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If you live anywhere near or come to london i can do you a great deal on the above size viv and ceramic bulb with heat guard £50
Royals are fine in a viv thats the length + depth = the length of the snake so a 3ft viv is more than adequate for a 3ft royal. In fact 3ft is perfect for getting great temp gradients.
I used a ceramic bulb with pulse proportionate stat as i didn't want light emitting. 60-100w. 60w if the vivs in a constantly warm room and 100w if the room is going to get cold. Placement of the sensor can take some adjusting. i placed the thermostat sensor in the lower half in the middle of the viv so its reading an ambient temp then used a digital thermometer under the hot hide so i new what the hot spot was going up to.
You can buy the whole ceramic kits of ebay works out a lot cheaper than most rep shops. you'll need
ceramiic bulb, ceramic holder and cable to manage extra wattage.
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1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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speedy231278
Hatchling
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 18:44:40
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Thanks for the offer, yes, I do go to London quite a bit, although quite how I'd get the stuff back on a train I have no idea! As it turns out, part of the dilemma is sorted. I now have a VX36 that needs putting together (and a space found to put it in) as I went back today to stake my claim, and I'm rather excited that she's now mine. You've answered the question I was about to ask about ceramic lamps needing a holder as I saw those on eBay and wondered if they were optional or not.
I'm a little unsure about stats. I was going to get a Habistat PP as I found some for £31 on eBay, but the bloke at the shop reckoned that they would shorten the life of the ceramic due to the pulsing, and said that most people that came to him used the Lucky Reptile Pro 2 stat which is quite a bit more expensive, but does seem to have some quite handy features if you like that sort of thing. Most of the stuff I've read here about people's kit seems to suggest ceramic and PP are perfectly adequate. However, as a digital thermometer is also recommended perhaps it would work out more economical to get the Pro box which has one anyway? |
2.1.0 royals
1.2.0 corns
0.0.3 motorcycles
0.1.0 she who must be obeyed... ;-) |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 19:21:22
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| A PP will be fine and you can get a 'Digital Aquarium Thermometer' from ebay for about £3. |
 
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speedy231278
Hatchling
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 19:57:03
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Right, that's settled then. I'm going to get a Habistat PP, digital thermometer (would you just measure the warm end or both? 100W ceramic (any preferences on brand or colour?), plus the necessary holder and guard. Any particular recommendations there? There's loads of ceramic holders plus cable on eBay for a few quid, and quite a number of guards for rather more....
Of course, you do realise I'm going to be asking more stupid questions when it comes to knitting it all together? ;-)
Thanks for the advice so far, much appreciated! :-) |
2.1.0 royals
1.2.0 corns
0.0.3 motorcycles
0.1.0 she who must be obeyed... ;-) |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
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inkygirl
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 20:10:43
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| best of luck sounds like you are more than prepared. cant wait to see pics xx |
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 20:20:28
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No worries glad your getting all sorted. I would measure both so you know your hot spot temp and your ambient temp. Ceramics are all pretty much the same. The brand i used was exxo terra.
they don't emit any light so the color doesn't matter. just make sure it's a ceramic bulb holder. guards are pretty much the same too, but make sure it's big enough to give the bulb some air circulation space. you can get the holders and different colored guards from here
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Reptiles-Ink |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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Edited by - Royalbob on 13/12/2010 20:28:22 |
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 20:54:49
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same here bob.
I went in today to kit out the new RUB's and almost had a heart attack at the price. |
\v/ Click me for Kelfezond Reptiles Facebook Page! \v/
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speedy231278
Hatchling
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 14/12/2010 : 17:08:33
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Well, I have all the bits now, except a couple of digitherms which should arrive in a few days. Found some very nicely priced stuff online, but no-one could really guarantee delivery any time soon, and if I went to the cheapest place in person I'd end up spending about as much in petrol or train fare as the saving would be. I now have a Habistat PP, Komodo 100W ceramic and fitting, plus a guard. Plus another whacking great hole in my wallet.
Final questions, I promise! What is best position to put the ceramic in? From some of the pics I've seen of other setups, I'm guessing half way between the front and the back, and say six inches or so from the end. But then I am guessing....
Also, the sensor for the stat. On the floor of the viv I assume, but reasonably close to being directly under the ceramic, or a little way towards the cool end? I would guess the further the sensor is from the cool end, the bigger temp gradient you will get. As with most things, people's opinion varies as to the appropriate temperatures for the warm and cool ends. Most sites seem to suggest around 90 and 80F, although I've seen it range to 75 and 95F. What do you guys run at? |
2.1.0 royals
1.2.0 corns
0.0.3 motorcycles
0.1.0 she who must be obeyed... ;-) |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 14/12/2010 : 19:07:21
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| I have my probes on the substrate directly below the heat source. |
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 14/12/2010 : 23:22:09
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quote:
Originally posted by speedy231278
What is best position to put the ceramic in? From some of the pics I've seen of other setups, I'm guessing half way between the front and the back, and say six inches or so from the end. But then I am guessing....
Perfect. Positioned mine slightly more towards the rear just so i could disguise the bulb guard with some fake plants.
quote:
Also, the sensor for the stat. On the floor of the viv I assume, but reasonably close to being directly under the ceramic, or a little way towards the cool end? I would guess the further the sensor is from the cool end, the bigger temp gradient you will get. Most sites seem to suggest around 90 and 80F, although I've seen it range to 75 and 95F. What do you guys run at?
yep place the sensor on floor of viv, basically where your creating your hot spot so beside your warm hide really. If you have this so you thermometer temp is at 90-92 then you should get a nice gradient in your viv. I ran my viv at 90 -80 that way cold nights the cool end will drop a little and wont be too low. get it all set up and run it for a few days keeping an eye on your temps and humidity especially know as central heating systems are on and the air will be drier.
Ask all you need
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1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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speedy231278
Hatchling
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 15/12/2010 : 09:20:09
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Central heating? I wish! Anyway, seeing as you've suggested a hygrometer, any recommendations on that? I think I'd prefer one with a remote sensor, but I suppose it doesn't really matter if it's all inside apart from when you want to tinker with it. I'm just slightly concerned it might get pulled off. Our corns love slithering over the dial thermometers we have when they come out to play, however they aren't exactly very heavy....!
Hopefully I'll get everything set up this evening. However before I can even think about putting the viv together I need to rehome a large bookshelf and have a good shuffle round in the living rooom. She must be the most expensive and awkward to house xmas present I've ever had (from that point of view). I have a feeling it will be worth the hassle though. |
2.1.0 royals
1.2.0 corns
0.0.3 motorcycles
0.1.0 she who must be obeyed... ;-) |
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 15/12/2010 : 11:56:16
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| It will be. average humidity is around 40-50 in my house but with central heating on goes down to 30-40. i've only got one digi hygrometer of ebay that i use periodically to check the humidity. once youve got it set and you know where to place your water bowl etc it's all good. just a little playing around when you first set up but it's not hard. During a shed cycle i just add a little damp moss to the warm hide a few days before they shed and thats it. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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speedy231278
Hatchling
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 16/12/2010 : 11:05:41
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Nearly there.... built the viv this morning (VX36). Sealed all the inside edges and behind the vents, around the camlocks etc (took longer than putting it together!), but forgot my plan was to fit the heater guard before actually attaching the top. No issue really. Best bit was that they give you a couple of small cutouts in the back to run cables through so the only drilling will be pilot holes for the guard. I'm going to give it a quick wipe around the edges with a cloth dampened with some white spirit at lunchtime to get rid of any excess I've managed to miss and/or get everywhere, then it's going to get a dose of mild detergent to get rid of that, before finally cleaning down with some pukka reptile anti-bac. Probably slighty overkill, but I've never actually built or sealed a viv before, the others were all ready to go when we got them.
Edit: minor delay in the proceedings. The lampholder I got in the shop is so flipping deep that the bulb would just about be touching the bottom of the guard, if it fits at all. However, the one I got from eBay has turned up, and it's a lot shallower, plus actually screws to the top of the viv rather than dangle from it's cable like the Komodo one would have done. Something to fix before the xmas party this evening..... |
2.1.0 royals
1.2.0 corns
0.0.3 motorcycles
0.1.0 she who must be obeyed... ;-) |
Edited by - speedy231278 on 16/12/2010 15:24:12 |
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Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 16/12/2010 : 18:00:35
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| Good luck mate sounds like it's all coming together. Built a viv for a corn snake once, well my dad built it and i watched and handed over a couple screws lol. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
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speedy231278
Hatchling
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 16/12/2010 : 23:02:38
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| All in one piece now. Digitherms haven't arrived yet, but I've got enough ex-fish therms to keep an eye on things until they do. Hopefully they'll arrive tommorrow. Usual paranoia about new things, was convinced I'd get back from the party to find a bonfire going on.... lol I hate new technology, can never trust it to do what it's supposed to do! |
2.1.0 royals
1.2.0 corns
0.0.3 motorcycles
0.1.0 she who must be obeyed... ;-) |
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The usual newbie questions - sorry!
