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Se7enS1ns
Yearling
United Kingdom
354 Posts |
 Posted - 15/03/2012 : 15:59:25
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Afternoon all,
So after a long drive and a late night, I got my new addition home safe and sound last night and the viv all set up.
Now he came with a 3foot viv which has a cerramic bulb (with cage) fitted about 1/3rd of the way along the roof panel, which is wired into a Habistat pulse-proportional thermostat, which is set to 32 degrees C.
Where should I place the probe for this? At the moment I have it running down the back wall and placed inside his log hide, which is placed all the way over to the far side of the viv, meaning the opening is pretty much directly under the bulb.
Is this correct?? |
www.royal-balls.blogspot.com
www.facebook.com/dandavisreptiles |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 15/03/2012 : 16:06:56
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| I put mine mostly under the bulb on the hot-spot but it doesn't matter too much as they're unreliable as hell and you'll end up just using a digital thermometer and playing the fine-tuning game for hours on end to get the desired temperatures :D |
\v/ Click me for Kelfezond Reptiles Facebook Page! \v/
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n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 15/03/2012 : 16:24:25
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Umm, well ...I'm absolutely no expert on pp stats, as I only have one secondhand one which I set up not expecting that much of it (it came with some other kit.) There was a convenient hole in the back of the viv, halfway along, about two thirds of the way down from the ceiling, so I ran the probe in there and secured it with a screw eye and cable tie ...and I can't believe how stable the temps have been. Before the full setup and snake went in I ran it for a good few days with a digital thermometer (I normally use a temp gun but with the thermometer I could keep checking whenever I glanced into the viv.)
Like I say, I'm really no expert, but that has been my one and only experience of a pp stat and ceramic.
Congrats on the new arrival btw! |
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Se7enS1ns
Yearling
United Kingdom
354 Posts |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 15/03/2012 : 17:01:11
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| I have my little ones on a rack which uses a pp stat for a length of heat cable and it amazes me how accurate it is at times |
\v/ Click me for Kelfezond Reptiles Facebook Page! \v/
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Se7enS1ns
Yearling
United Kingdom
354 Posts |
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Kelfezond
The bearded one
United Kingdom
4803 Posts |
Posted - 15/03/2012 : 19:24:52
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| Aye I have my probe stuck in a spare rub on the rack |
\v/ Click me for Kelfezond Reptiles Facebook Page! \v/
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2012 : 02:40:18
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The expert opinion on stat probes and heat mats is to put the probe directly on the mat between the mat and the viv. Basically, the probe is sandwiched between the underside of the viv and the top of the mat. This is because, the heat coming from the heat mat is the thing you need to control and not how hot is one centimeter section of viv that the probe happens to be stuck on that might vary depending on whether a snake is sitting on it or if substrate got piled high on it, or if the snake pees on it, etc. etc. The probe is sandwiched because it prevents air drafts to cool the probe and giving it a wrong reading.
In a rack system, the probe is stuck to the heat mat smack dab in the middle of the rack to control all the heat mats.
For a viv heated by a heat lamp, the probe can be put inside the lamp cage where the snake can't get to it.
In either set-up, the temp setting of the probe doesn't matter. What matters is the temp inside the viv. So, you can have a stat probe set at 97F to achieve a 92F hotspot reading on the temp gun inside the viv. Make sense?
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Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
1.0.0 normal western hognose |
Edited by - anatess on 16/03/2012 02:42:00 |
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Se7enS1ns
Yearling
United Kingdom
354 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2012 : 09:50:11
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Hmmm... Well thanks for that Anatess, that was really helpful. I'm just wondering now how I'm going to set up up.
Currently my stat probe is in the entrance to the hot hide, pretty much directly under the bulb. I have the stat set at 32 degrees C, but my thermometer read 29 degrees hot / 25 degrees cold. I havent noticed the stat "heat" light goes off or start flickering yet though.
I think I might put the probe in the bulb cage as you said, and turn the stat right up, and when the ambient temp at the hot end gets to 32degrees, turn the stat down until the "heat" light goes of (or starts flickering). This would work, right? |
www.royal-balls.blogspot.com
www.facebook.com/dandavisreptiles |
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Se7enS1ns
Yearling
United Kingdom
354 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2012 : 19:46:29
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Still having "fun" with this - I've put a couple of thermometers right under the bulb, which are reading 32degrees C. I've set the stat to 32 degrees also - but the heat light doesn't go out on the stat!
I turned the dial down slowly, and it didn't actually turn off until the dial was practically at it's lowest. I swear these things are designed purely to test me!
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www.royal-balls.blogspot.com
www.facebook.com/dandavisreptiles |
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Se7enS1ns
Yearling
United Kingdom
354 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2012 : 23:16:22
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Right, I've given up. I've decided that the ceramic bulb isn't heating the vivarium up beyond 32degrees C at the floor, so the stat was never switching off (or pulsing).
I've tested that the stat is working by moving it over to my other vivarium setup and attaching the probe to the heat mat - sure enough the stat is pulsing away! I've left the stat attached to this vivarium (Monty's) and just plugged the other (Ifrits) straight into the wall. I'll continue to monitor temps and buy a higher wattage bulb tomorrow. |
www.royal-balls.blogspot.com
www.facebook.com/dandavisreptiles |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 17/03/2012 : 00:10:07
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| What wattage is the bulb? I need a 100 Watt for my 30oC Boa and 150 Watt for Duke and his 32oC, the 100 Watt could get there but I like to have a few extra degrees waiting in the wings just in case they are required. |
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Se7enS1ns
Yearling
United Kingdom
354 Posts |
Posted - 17/03/2012 : 09:49:43
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Not sure, just went to go take it out to check and burnt my fingers! Doh! (I haven't woken up yet, it seems!) - I'm going to guess 100w. I've left it on all night just plugged straight into the wall, and to my surprise it actually seems to be keeping temp really well - I have 32degrees at the hot hide entrance, and 26 degrees at the cold side. Am going to keep checking this through the day. Exactly like you said though Bob, I'd rather have a bit of reserve power on tap for a sudden plummet in night time temps, so am definitely going to get a 150w bulb.
On a separate note: I've had the PP stat attached to Montys heat mat (other viv) since yesterday and have been monitoring temps every hour or so since. I've come to the conclusion that heat mats are rubbish!
(a)The mat temp goes beyond 45degress in some places, but barely 40 in others - there's no consistency in temparature across the mat so the placement of the stat probe is luck of the draw really.
(b)The temperature differs between directly on the mat, and an inch of substrate - the heat just doesn't make it through the substrate too well, so to have 32degrees on top of the chips, I needed 35+ at the mat.
(c)Heat mats do virtually nothing for ambient temp: With a reading of 36 at the mat, and 32 on top of the substrate, the thermometer placed 1 inch above the substrate gace a reading of 22degrees hot side, and 20 at the cold side!!
Monty is still only small at the mo (400grams) so I think it is perfectly ample for now as it is more than capable of warming her up from the underside without posing risk of burns - plus I have a basking lamp on during daylight hours which heats the ambient temp up to 32 hot / 24 cold. I will however be ditching the mat on payday in favour of a ceramic bulb. I think Mats have their use in RUB setups and stacks etc, but I'm not happy with the results in a viv, and Monty seems to agree  |
www.royal-balls.blogspot.com
www.facebook.com/dandavisreptiles |
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
Posted - 17/03/2012 : 18:12:46
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Oooh... heat mats like the black square things with some glue on one side? Yeah, those are notoriously inconsistent. They were originally designed to heat up potted plants.
I use Flexwatt... I think they call it something else there in the UK. Maybe Flexil or something.
One of these days I'm going to get used to Celsius again. I used to do Celsius when I lived in the Philippines, but now, I can't seem to remember how 32C feels like... |
Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
1.0.0 normal western hognose |
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Se7enS1ns
Yearling
United Kingdom
354 Posts |
Posted - 17/03/2012 : 19:50:41
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quote:
Originally posted by anatess
Oooh... heat mats like the black square things with some glue on one side? Yeah, those are notoriously inconsistent. They were originally designed to heat up potted plants.
I use Flexwatt... I think they call it something else there in the UK. Maybe Flexil or something.
One of these days I'm going to get used to Celsius again. I used to do Celsius when I lived in the Philippines, but now, I can't seem to remember how 32C feels like...
Yep, thems the ones! Except mine doesn't seem to be have glue, it just sits there under the substrate. I've grown to hate it over the last 24 hours. I've done an awful lot of reading up, and there's an argument that under-belly heat is better for a snakes digestive function, however the general consensus is that a heater that controls ambient temp (ceramic / IR) is more like what a snakes natural environment - especially Royals which live in shadey areas and are mostly nocturnal! So, the heat mat is getting binned next weekend in favour of a stat controlled ceramic.
Ah I wouldn't bother learning Celsius, it'll be universally ditched in favour of the much more precise Fahrenheit soon enough no doubt, and if there's one thing the Germans know, it's precision! |
www.royal-balls.blogspot.com
www.facebook.com/dandavisreptiles |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 17/03/2012 : 21:23:00
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| I wouldn't use a mat to heat anything other than my Tarantulas, like you say they are so inconsistent across their surface and I'm always terrified that the snake in contact with the heat source will burn them, I use ceramics now and I'll never look back, its been difficult keeping the ambient temp down a bit in the corn vivarium but other than that I love ceramic heating. |
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Se7enS1ns
Yearling
United Kingdom
354 Posts |
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Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 17/03/2012 : 22:53:21
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Cable is the future lol.
Its great how you can run one cable through foil lined grooves and do a whole rack on one stat. |
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Se7enS1ns
Yearling
United Kingdom
354 Posts |
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2012 : 06:16:37
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FLEXWATT!
Okay, you know those black square heat mats? Running inside those rubbery looking things are... you guessed it... heat cables. |
Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
1.0.0 normal western hognose |
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anatess
Sub Adult
USA
669 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2012 : 06:27:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Se7enS1ns
Yep, thems the ones! Except mine doesn't seem to be have glue, it just sits there under the substrate. I've grown to hate it over the last 24 hours. I've done an awful lot of reading up, and there's an argument that under-belly heat is better for a snakes digestive function, however the general consensus is that a heater that controls ambient temp (ceramic / IR) is more like what a snakes natural environment - especially Royals which live in shadey areas and are mostly nocturnal! So, the heat mat is getting binned next weekend in favour of a stat controlled ceramic.
Ah I wouldn't bother learning Celsius, it'll be universally ditched in favour of the much more precise Fahrenheit soon enough no doubt, and if there's one thing the Germans know, it's precision!
Wait a minute... did you say you put the heat mat under the substrate INSIDE the viv? That's not a good idea mate... the royal can sit on that heat mat trapping airflow which could cause thermal burn... |
Snake owner since Oct 2008, so yeah, I'm no expert.
0.1.0 pastel royal
1.0.0 spider royal
0.1.0 albino royal
1.0.0 bumblebee royal
1.0.0 yellowbelly royal
0.0.1 wild-type royal
1.0.0 normal western hognose |
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Topic |
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PP Stat Sensor Placement?
