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Toothfairy
Hatchling
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
 Posted - 23/06/2009 : 23:40:04
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| can that ibd affect other species of snake? |
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wolfspirit
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
5741 Posts |
Posted - 23/06/2009 : 23:41:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Toothfairy
can that ibd affect other species of snake?
yes it has also been found in colubrids not sure of others...
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"No one can go back and make a brand new start. Anyone can start from
now and make a brand new ending."
-- Source Unknown
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Edited by - wolfspirit on 23/06/2009 23:42:02 |
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MissCat
Fully Grown Royal
1971 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 00:08:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Toothfairy
well a sad snake would be dorment and not active and perched on top of a branch, as she was active most of the time up until the end, the only thing that was differet was that she had not eaten and she needed a little help shedding. i have seen some snakes in bad conditions of which look poorly cared for and have a number a scars, with this in mind i am more than confident that my snake was very happy and everything else was normal.
sorry but i have to beg to differ with this one.
in my experience (though i will conceed that i dont have as much experience as you, most people on this forum.. so please correct me if i am wrong...) a sad royal python wouldn't necessarily be "dormant at the top of a branch" in fact i would say that more activity would possibly imply that the snake is not happy and looking for an escape/preferd temp/prefered humidity etc. i'm more happy when my royals are not particularly active in their vivs.....unless it's coming up to a feed in which case i presume they are "hunting".
also, how can you say that it died of constipation if there's been no pm? did you know it was constipated before it died? if not, could that have been because there were two royals in the viv and you could not tell whose faeces was whose? or did you suspect constipation before the death? if so, why did you not do something about it?
with the bathing and the misting of the viv, was the ater bowl near the heat source or in the cooler end? was there also a moist hide in the viv? can you be sure there was no RI?
you have not mentioned (or so i believe, i may have missed it) how you were measuring the temperature?
how were you heating the viv?
was the heat source on a thermostat (not that i am insinating it's not... but too low a temp may have meant that food was not being digested properly perhaps) it keeps being said that the viv was being kept at the right temperature, but as far as i can see, it hasn't actually been stated what that temperature was, nor how it was measured.
as has already been mentioned, the dial hygrometers are notoriously inaccurate, the same goes for dial thermometers, especially when they are stuck to the side of the viv, as opposed to being on the substrate floor.
As far as i have been made aware, required humidity for a royal, is normal room humidity of around roughly 50% which can be raised slightly but only when the royal is in shed as there is a risk of RI's.
many people achieve this by misting the viv as required, OR placing a damp moss hide in the viv (i have mine in at all times, my royal only ever uses it when in shed, so he obviously makes the conscious decision that is what he needs).
Sometimes it's better to use a moss hide before trying a bath, as baths can stress the snake out (though i admit to bathing mine on occasion, but my first was seriously dehydrated and had about 3 sheds worth of skin stuck to him, where as my second had mites so had an oil bath).
Also you have not mentioned whether it was possible that she could have been egg-bound, as it would have been possible for her to have been gravid, assuming both your royals were probed correctly.
TBH a simple photo of your set up will answer most of these questions.
As for the idea of IBD, i know absolutely nothing about it, so will say nothing about it.
It is completely possible that she just died for no reason whatsoever.
it does happen in the animal kingdom, i have had tarantulas, rats and cats and dogs over the years that have seemed 100% healthy and just dropped dead, a long time before they should have done, with no cause found by vets.
it just happens.
It's not a witch hunt, i am sure you did everything you thought right to prevent this from happening, we can only give IDEAS as to why it did happen, obviously we are not there with you, have never met your royal, do not know it's history as well as you, nor seen the set up in the depth or detail as you, all we can add are observations.
sorry for the long post.
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wolfspirit
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
5741 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 06:35:06
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some very good points there MissCat  |
"No one can go back and make a brand new start. Anyone can start from
now and make a brand new ending."
-- Source Unknown
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 06:45:33
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quote:
Originally posted by MissCat
sorry but i have to beg to differ with this one.
in my experience (though i will conceed that i dont have as much experience as you, most people on this forum.. so please correct me if i am wrong...) a sad royal python wouldn't necessarily be "dormant at the top of a branch" in fact i would say that more activity would possibly imply that the snake is not happy and looking for an escape/preferd temp/prefered humidity etc. i'm more happy when my royals are not particularly active in their vivs.....unless it's coming up to a feed in which case i presume they are "hunting".
I was thinking this too. Royals are very likely to lay dormant until they are ready to feed - lazy gits  |
 
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lee2308
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
2597 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 10:45:03
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| just look at mine,aint seen him for 4 months but is in top health and now feeding.he's happy where he is in his hide and has no reason to move,a bit like me my mrs says. |
Members map-------Want to be on the map?
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wolfspirit
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
5741 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 11:11:30
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quote:
Originally posted by lee2308
just look at mine,aint seen him for 4 months but is in top health and now feeding.he's happy where he is in his hide and has no reason to move,a bit like me my mrs says.
you know i love your Mrs...
she is NEVER wrong is she.. |
"No one can go back and make a brand new start. Anyone can start from
now and make a brand new ending."
-- Source Unknown
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Mogsy
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
16 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 15:12:17
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Toothfairy
Sorry to hear about your loss, i lost my royal last week too and the guys on this forum realy who there stuff, and as they've said it can be so many things.
Mogsy |
TIBERIUS
04/07/09 |
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Toothfairy
Hatchling
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 18:55:43
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| whats the point of the snake if you do not interact with it? four months with no handling, that snake will eventually become aggressive. My friend and i just brought a collection of snakes, in that collection was a 5ft red tail boa, costus approx 3ft and my corn steve 4ft. All three had not been be handled regualarly by the owners, and in the last 6months had no handling at all. All three snakes were aggressive due to this, the red tail was the most agressive. We have owned these snakes for approximately 6.5weeks, Steve now shows no hint of aggression, apart from the odd tail shake, Cotus has bit twice but is getting better by the day, and dessie has gone from being unhandlable to living with a 7ft boa and a 18mth old boa and rarely shows any kinds of aggression now. My friend and i take our snakes into the garden to soak up the sun and they love it. Natural sunlight and natural heat. you say that they enjoy being dormant, but my snakes wait at the glass to be handled, they sit looking at me, royals are nocturnal but as i said before Shirley and Costus are/were both out and about all times of the day. I can just let you know that they are not looking for food, if you think this is the reason why as they all have a feeding place and they no when they are put in this place they are getting fed. I know this because there personality changes as they go into hunting mode (as they start to attack anything which they do not do at any other time). I am just going to add that it sounds like my friend and my snakes seem to be the only ones with personalities. Just ask yourself would you leave a dog in a kennel for four mouths????? |
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MissCat
Fully Grown Royal
1971 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 18:59:43
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| i never said they shouldn't be handled.... |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 19:07:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Toothfairy
We have owned these snakes for approximately 6.5weeks, Steve now shows no hint of aggression, apart from the odd tail shake, Cotus has bit twice but is getting better by the day, and dessie has gone from being unhandlable to living with a 7ft boa and a 18mth old boa.
So you don't believe in quarantine at all, let alone separate housing?
quote:
Originally posted by Toothfairy
Just ask yourself would you leave a dog in a kennel for four mouths?????
Dogs and snakes are not alike though, dogs being pack animals and enjoying being sociable, snakes being solitary creatures that prefer to hide away. |
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Toothfairy
Hatchling
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 19:12:15
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| but my point is that mine dont, they love the social interaction |
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snakeman
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
1 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 19:16:24
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| it seems the poor girl was looking for information and all she received from some so called experts was criticism. sorry for your loss. has for being quarantined, it sounds like everything was done correctly and some people should shut up. |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 19:17:33
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Snake's don't have the ability to love anything I'm afraid, they may tolerate it better than others.
Plus there are so many things that can go wrong with co-habiting, lack of quarantine, over handling etc.
I'm sorry a snake has died, perhaps we can stop it happening to another. |
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 19:19:27
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quote:
Originally posted by snakeman
it seems the poor girl was looking for information and all she received from some so called experts was criticism. sorry for your loss. has for being quarantined, it sounds like everything was done correctly and some people should shut up.
I'm sorry if I upset you, no-one on here proclaims to be an expert. However, I do know that a recommended quarantine period for boids is 6 months, so I don't see how everything was done correctly?
We have not criticised, merely pointed in the correct direction, for the benefit of other snakes.
You do not have to choose to follow the advice. |
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Edited by - Blackecho on 24/06/2009 19:20:37 |
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wolfspirit
Old Royal - I Post too much!
United Kingdom
5741 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 19:19:29
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i dont mean to sound rude,
but
people have expressed sympathy and concern at what has happened to your snake, and in part you have been unfair.
in the wild royals will spend a long part of there lives living in disused burrows etc and only surface to hunt.
they are naturally shy reptiles.
the fact that your royals do the opposite caused concerns as it is not natural, yes some royals are active, but they are not like other snakes and stress out very quickly.
it is up to you what you do with your snakes,
but if you do not provide the right environment for them with correctly statted temps etc your asking for trouble |
"No one can go back and make a brand new start. Anyone can start from
now and make a brand new ending."
-- Source Unknown
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dave 68
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 19:25:23
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| today i had my 3 boa's in the garden enjoying the sun and surroundings. people should keep their opinions to themselves. if you want to let your royal lie there for 4 months then fine. i feel sorry for it the fact it is couped up all the time. if you are not going handle or interact with your pets,then why bother having them.talking to a guy who has been in the business for 15+ years the first thing he asked about was constipation when ibd was ruled out. shirley has gone,lets remember that. it is a tragedy. and to criticise a set up without actually seeing it is a joke. you could carry out as many tests as you want and still not find the cause. thanks for all your words of wisdom???..... |
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MissCat
Fully Grown Royal
1971 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 19:27:34
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sorry but the OP came on and asked for possible answers, which she was given.
I fail to see how it is anyone elses fault if the possible reasons will not even be considered. And it is very hard to continue being understanding and sympathetic when it feels like you might as well be talking to yourself in the first place. |
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MissCat
Fully Grown Royal
1971 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 19:28:32
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also once again i say... i never said you shouldnt handle the snake, in fact mine get handled and taken into the garden in the sun.... please don not make assumptions
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Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2009 : 19:29:57
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quote:
Originally posted by dave 68
people should keep their opinions to themselves.
Isn't this the point of a public forum?
quote:
Originally posted by dave 68
talking to a guy who has been in the business for 15+ years the first thing he asked about was constipation when ibd was ruled out. shirley has gone,lets remember that.
If he's been in the business for 15+ years then he must know that IBD can only be ruled out by a liver biopsy?
quote:
Originally posted by dave 68
you could carry out as many tests as you want and still not find the cause. thanks for all your words of wisdom???.....
You could, or you could actually find out what was wrong and stop it happening again. I know what I'd be doing. |
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Edited by - Blackecho on 24/06/2009 19:32:33 |
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