| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
 Posted - 15/02/2011 : 19:46:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by stevethornley
Thanks everyone for your input.
Sandi's point:
"I suspect that some of these super duper vivs are lit to meet our human aesthetics rather than our snakes."
is an interesting one, and probably goes to the heart of what I am trying to do here. Clearly, with the amount of effort and money that is spent on their snake's accomodation, aesthetics of the vivarium are important but, I agree, this should not be done to the detriment of the inhabitant. 100% agree with this.
If you look at parallels with aquariums, the only things fish probably need are clean water and food. Yet look at the extent that we as fish keepers (me included) go to (a) lighting (b) coloured stones and 'general' furniture (c) planting, although this can contribute to the health of the tank, sure.
I am trying to fit my son's viv so that the look, not only of the snake, but the viv also, hits him (and his future reptile-keeping friends!) squarely between the eyes. "The snake should be enough" I hear you cry, and it, no doubt, will be. But it's in my nature to research everything to the max. This is, afterall, why I am here!
Re: the American Youtube clips: I linked to this NOT because of the glass vivaria, mesh tops or them looking like Blackpool illuminations, only as a reference to the existance of white or 'daylight-looking' light and seemingly happy snakes. I accept that my day/night idea might be one to advance to later, once the baby has settled in. I appreciate that I am a novice with much to learn and that, often, it is better to "keep it simple stupid!"
So, IR or ceramic? Looking back through the various posts on this thread, I think most of you are saying IR. Can anyone enlighten me as to their longevity compared to a ceramic?
And then I'm unsure about substrate. The snake breeder who is supplying us with said 6-month old Royal is not a big fan of any kind of bark because of the risk of causing fatal damage if ingested. I appreciate that there are things you can do to lessen this risk (covering the substrate with a sheet of paper or feeding in a RUB being the 2 most recommended ones I can find on this forum). But if I wanted to use something less 'risky' what should I use? Aspen?
Oh, and one final thing. My breeder is recommending going for an 18-inch rather than 2 foot viv. Can I find one? Not on your life! If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd be very grateful.
Do please remember that you are dealing with a complete novice so go easy on me. I'm still learning!
Thanks all. Hope you have a great week.
Steve
Hi Steve i think the most important point to remember is that your dealing with a nocturnal species. Bright white lights are not only not needed but will also annoy and can damage the pupils of the snake. I keep marine fish and where talking full spectrum lighting, moon lighting, corals etc. This is because they need it. royal python's don't.
They require no U.V and Natural light from a window is perfect. I suggested the I.R bulb because then you can view the little one in the eve when it's dark.
Habitat wise they live in rodent burrows in open savanna's so some nice crammed hides and the right heat and they'll be fine. Some royals don't even like all the artificial plants. Aspen is fine as substrate as well. Mine are all on kitchen roll. I Just like the way it's hygienic. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
 |
 |
|
|
stevethornley
Hatchling
United Kingdom
69 Posts |
Posted - 15/02/2011 : 22:36:59
|
Thanks everyone. I had no idea this would turn into such an active thread when I started out but boy, have I learnt a lot! Hopefully, Mums and Dads searching for info to fulfill their offspring's dreams will find it useful in the future.
Good news - I have now found an 18x15x15-inch viv at Surrey Pet Supplies (more expensive than the 2-foot flat-pack LOL!) and I shall go for Aspen substrate and a 75W IR bulb, with a guard, on a dimmer stat. Am I getting close now?! You've all been so patient! Thanks so much.
I'll stick a couple of fake plants in to provide a bit of cover and a little log or somesuch to aid shedding.
A couple more questions!
1. I'm sure that two degrees doesn't make a great deal of difference, but I was looking at the Care Sheet Page on this Forum again last night (thanks for putting this together, it's been sooo helpful) and, under 'heating equipment' it says that the temperature gradient should be 33-26 and a couple of paragraphs later, 33-24! Also, can I be confident that I will be able to obtain this extent of gradient in such a small viv? Is there something I can do to make the cooler end cooler if it's not cool enough? Stick an ice-block in? (joke) 
2. I'm really confused by the huge range of hides available. I really like the exo-terra snake caves like this one:
http://www.surreypetsupplies.co.uk/exo-terra-snake-cave.html
but I'm unsure which size I need for a 6-month old baby. I've read in a different thread that the snake likes to be snug but, presumably, there are limits! I wanted to get three so do I just go for mediums and see how it goes?
Cheers
Steve |
0.1.0 Royal Python - Kate
0.1.0 Beagle - Poppy
0.0.11 tiny tropical fish - not named |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 15/02/2011 : 22:50:01
|
Medium sounds about okay for a 6 month royal - the et hides are good because they slope at the sides, giving as tight a space as the snake decides to go in. In my time I've used all kinds of cardboard boxes - you imagine a 3'+ corn cramming itself into a grissini box lol, but I understand you want to go for as natural a look as possible.
All the best - sounds great! |
|
|
|
|
Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 15/02/2011 : 22:57:04
|
I use medium exo terra caves for my VERY large 7 month old, he was 6 when I got him and fits nicely in the hides with a little bit of wiggle room though he does lift it from time to time so it wont be long before he needs a bigger one. If you get a smaller royal you could stuff something in the hide to close the gap.
For temperature I aim for a hot spot temp of 32 degrees, the ambient just falls into place at around 26-27 depending on the heat of the room. |
|
|
|
|
Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 15/02/2011 : 23:56:23
|
| Your flying down the home straight now steve. set up sounds perfect. yeh in a viv your looking for 90F (32.2C) hot spot and 80F (26.7C) cool end. As lotabob said the ambient should just balance out with the air circulation from the vivs vents. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
|
|
|
|
stevethornley
Hatchling
United Kingdom
69 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2011 : 10:54:11
|
Hi again everyone!
"Flying down the home straight"... I like it Royalbob!
And I felt I was... until:
Decided to kit out the viv with bits from Surrey Pet Supplies - great prices and from what has been said on this forum and elsewhere, seemed like a safe pair of hands.
They're only an hour or so away from us so I thought I would pop along yesterday afternoon to touch and feel stuff, do all the things you can't do online - make sure the bulb will fit in the guard etc.
Chatted the set-up over with a lovely young chap there: 18x15x15 viv, 75W IR bulb on a dimmer stat, Apsen substrate, snake hide at cool end, reptile hide at hot end. I thought I had it sorted, until he said that I would also need a heat mat!
"But what about the danger of thermal-blocking with a large-bodied snake like a Royal Python?" I said, pretending I knew what I was talking about.  "Not an issue" he said. "Snakes are designed to heat from the bottom up, not the top down" he said, "They'll move off the mat when they are hot enough".
Gees, I thought! Back to the drawing board, or in this case back to the forum. Either I've missed something,a bit thick, or he's just wrong!
Please advise!
Have a great weekend everyone.
Steve
|
0.1.0 Royal Python - Kate
0.1.0 Beagle - Poppy
0.0.11 tiny tropical fish - not named |
Edited by - stevethornley on 19/02/2011 10:55:32 |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2011 : 11:00:44
|
 !!!
(Facepalm!)
No, you're not thick!
He's wrong!!
|
|
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2011 : 11:04:11
|
| (And you do know what you're talking about!) |
|
|
|
|
Benji54
Hatchling
United Kingdom
59 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2011 : 12:46:18
|
| yep couldnt agree more! what a thing to say! how many times have i seen a snake laying on its back in the sun...oh yeah! NEVER lol! you certainly seem like you know what your doing steve! |
1.0.0 royal "ophion"
1.1.0 corns "wotsit" and "biscuit"
0.1.0 coastal carpet python- "serendipity"
0.1.0 bunny rabbit (?) "Truffle"
RIP Prisma Pequeno- Brazilian Rainbow Boa |
|
|
|
Royalbob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
1115 Posts |
Posted - 21/02/2011 : 01:01:21
|
As bats said steve you've got everything, don't forget water bowl.
There is absolutely no need for a heat mat, which would also need another stat. ARGHH i'm angry now.
here's all you need.
Viv
Thermostat (dimming)
2 thermometer's (i use mercury and digital)
Hygrometer
bulb ( plus a spare)
Bulb guard
2+ hides (so snake is snug)
water bowl
substrate
viv decor
feeding tongs
appropriate sized food
Disinfectant for viv ( i use F10)
Spare container for snake whilst cleaning. |
1.0 Enchi butter
1.0 Enchi X Pastel
1.0 Fire het clown
1.0 Bumblebee
1.0 pinstripe
0.1 Enchi Fire
0.1 Pastel calico
0.1 Yellow belly Pinstripe
0.1 Lemon pastel poss het clown
0.1 Het clown
0.1 Yellow belly
0.1 Green Mojave
0.1 HC Albino
0.2 Normals
|
|
|
|
Blackecho
Royal Python Admin
United Kingdom
11327 Posts |
Posted - 21/02/2011 : 07:54:38
|
| Grrr, some people shouldn't be allowed to give advise! |
 
 |
|
|
|
Welly
Yearling
United Kingdom
423 Posts |
Posted - 21/02/2011 : 15:40:43
|
I still use a heat mat and a Ceramic. I don't see an issue as long as it is checked and not heavily realied on. My mat is steady at 26'
I will and do intend to move Sabre off of it when she a bit bigger. But as she is still growing she spends much of her time sat on it in the day and comes out to roam at night.
But, going against my own words here i can't see why you would need one in a 18" Viv, that would just be a tad overkill and far to hot. In a 3 foot maybe yes.
As for your thermal gradient it will vary through the day and outside temps. I would say get the hot end right and leave the cold end to sort itself out and expect some variation.
If the cold end isn't any different to the hot end then you will need to add some more vent's. If it's to cold (unlikey) then partially cover or completly cover a vent off. Remember that it will need to have a good steady supply of air though so don't cut it off completly.
|
0.1.0 Royal Python
0.0.1 Mexican Black King
1.0.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa |
|
|
|
stevethornley
Hatchling
United Kingdom
69 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 19:47:37
|
Thanks everyone! Yes, Royalbob, I hadn't forgotten the waterbowl completely, but thanks for the reminder! I HAD forgotten the disinfectant and if F10 is good enough for you, it's good enough for me!
Everything should be arriving on Thursday and then I have the fun job of getting it all ready. Thanks, Welly, for the thermal gradient advice: I think I'll be lucky to get the cool end right but let's see how we go!
Thanks all. I'll keep you posted.
Steve
|
0.1.0 Royal Python - Kate
0.1.0 Beagle - Poppy
0.0.11 tiny tropical fish - not named |
|
|
|
stevethornley
Hatchling
United Kingdom
69 Posts |
Posted - 28/02/2011 : 14:48:37
|
Hi everyone
Well, the day is nearly here! I spent Saturday afternoon putting all the bits I'd ordered into the secondhand viv I purchased from the breeder, and yesterday, I collected the snake in a pillowcase!
I have to say I was very nervous! Had a 10 minute car journey to get back home and I had butterflies the whole way!
Once I got home, I deposited the snake into the viv that I'd had running all day to get up to temperature. She had a good explore (it's currently hidden in my home office for the surprise tomorrow morning) and then tucked into the hide under the lamp. Today, I've seen her pressed up to the glass the full height of the viv, back in the hide and now she's outside stretched along the left hand side of the viv. I assume she's happy getting to know the new space - tried asking her if she's OK but she's not very talkative. Is this normal?
I don't seem to be able to get much of a temperature gradient but I'm guessing that this is difficult in a viv of this size. I've got one sensor in the back left corner, on the substrate (this is where the dimmer sensor is too) and the other in the back right corner by the snake cave. Averaging around 30 degrees on the hot side and 28 on the cool - but I think that directly under the lamp is going to be a couple of degrees hotter and actually in the snake cave may be a little cooler than outside. I'll try and include a photo below so if anyone has any ideas of how I can change things for the better, go for it!
Many, many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. You will have helped a special boy fulfil his dream tomorrow morning and I am very grateful.
Steve
|
0.1.0 Royal Python - Kate
0.1.0 Beagle - Poppy
0.0.11 tiny tropical fish - not named |
Edited by - stevethornley on 28/02/2011 15:17:48 |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 28/02/2011 : 14:58:55
|
Happy snakeday in advance!
Yes, snakes do like to explore a new environment and yes, it is normal for them not to talk much lol!
I can't talk about temps ... I seem to do them okay but if I try to talk about them I tie myself up in a knot - but as you know there are plenty of good guys here to advise.
Just wish I could be a fly on the wall tomorrow when your lad sees his present ... can you take pics?
Very very happy birthday to him! |
|
Edited by - n/a on 28/02/2011 14:59:22 |
|
|
|
Welly
Yearling
United Kingdom
423 Posts |
Posted - 28/02/2011 : 16:05:36
|
| Good stuff. Hope he likes it. |
0.1.0 Royal Python
0.0.1 Mexican Black King
1.0.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa |
|
|
|
Lotabob
Royal Python Moderator
United Kingdom
5008 Posts |
Posted - 28/02/2011 : 20:23:23
|
Congrats on the snake finally been home, I'm sure your excited about tomorrow, cant wait to hear all about it.
I would turn up the hot end hot spot to 32 degrees making sure the hotspot probes are slap bang in the middle of the brightest bit on the floor(or as close to as possible) and make sure the sensor measuring ambient doesn't have line of sight to the bulb, if you put it in the cold end hide or tuck it just behind it you should get the best idea of the gradient temperature. Your temps aren't far off the recommended though so there is no problem in just tweeking the temps over the next day or three. |
|
Edited by - Lotabob on 28/02/2011 20:25:15 |
|
|
|
stevethornley
Hatchling
United Kingdom
69 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2011 : 21:35:17
|
What a day!
We are woken at quarter to 4 in the morning by a very excited boy who doesn't claim to have seen the red glow on top of his chest of drawers on his way out of bed and we manage to persuade him to stay in bed with us until half past six (still far to early in my book!) when we go into his bedroom to have a proper look at the viv (which he eventually admits to having seen earlier but didn't want to spoil the surprise!)
What he didn't know was that there was a snake in there already! And you can only imagine his joy. We had a brief, nervous, handling and then put her back to observe behind glass. He's called her Kate in honour of the forthcoming Royal marriage (gettit!) and she has been much admired from a distance having a good roam all over the viv. We can't wait to handle her again but we're going to leave it until the weekend when we'll try our first feed.
Here are some quick photos: sorry about the quality. I'll try to get some better ones once she's settled in. We're all quite apprehensive so we're just taking it one step at the time!
|
0.1.0 Royal Python - Kate
0.1.0 Beagle - Poppy
0.0.11 tiny tropical fish - not named |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
7384 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2011 : 21:41:04
|
Aww! Brought tears to my eyes ...
Magical! |
|
|
|
|
louise32
Yearling
275 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2011 : 23:08:28
|
Awww, such cute pics.
Thanks for sharing.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Royal Python for my 8-year old's birthday
